Sleep problem, anyone had a similar problem?

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David321

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#315953 2-Sep-2024 07:35

Hi all,

Before I see a doctor I wanted to check on here if anyone has had the same issue and found something that has helped them?

Its to do with sleep, and if its relevant, I'm male, and 36 years old, usually in bed just before 9pm and alarm goes off at 5.10am which would give me 8 hours sleep if I sleep start to finish (doesn't happen).

I usually do not have to much trouble falling asleep (although it can take a while) but my problem is when I wake up sometime between midnight and 5am to use the bathroom and drink some water (which happens every night) It takes me hours to get back to sleep after returning to bed, sometimes I cant get back to sleep at all and I literally stay awake for hours until my alarm goes off to get up.

This doesn't just happen sometimes, its 99% of the time and is getting quite frustrating. My wife can get up for a drink etc and get back in to bed and be back asleep in what seems like 5 minutes! I know because I am usually still awake from getting up to do the same hours earlier.

I know it common to not be able to sleep through the night when you get older (or so i have heard), but I wouldn't imagine most people would have so much trouble getting back to sleep as I do, can this be fixed? I know there are many different types of sleeping pills, but I have heard so many of them cause dependence? I am not to keen on getting dependent on meds to sleep.

My wife and I are expecting our next child in January, I know I will get woken frequently when he arrives, and not getting to sleep in between his cries will mean ill be up all night every night!

_David_

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#3278028 2-Sep-2024 07:42

The whole 8hrs thing is bit of a myth. Some people run better on more or less. So don't be overly concerned. But talk to doc first, there may be something else going on with your body.

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eracode

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#3278032 2-Sep-2024 08:04

Are you under any type of stress - eg. work? When you're awake in the early hours, are you worrying about something (apart from worrying about not being able to get back to sleep) or have you got recurring thoughts going round and round that keep you awake?

You don't say how you feel during the day after a poor night's sleep. If you feel basically Ok, maybe there's nothing to be concerned about and you need only a few hours sleep as your normal - as @xpd says above.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

Gurezaemon

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#3278036 2-Sep-2024 08:16

David321:

I usually do not have to much trouble falling asleep (although it can take a while) but my problem is when I wake up sometime between midnight and 5am to use the bathroom and drink some water (which happens every night) It takes me hours to get back to sleep after returning to bed, sometimes I cant get back to sleep at all and I literally stay awake for hours until my alarm goes off to get up.

Have you tried reading during that time? I often wake up at 4-5 o'clock with the same issue.

I find reading a kindle (with its very low, non-glary lighting) a good way to calm the brain down, and usually after 10 or so minutes, I find myself drifting off.

Also, because the kindle has its own very gentle light which is totally unlike looking at a phone, it doesn't wake up my wife either, something which we found important when we had small kids.

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robjg63

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#3278040 2-Sep-2024 08:41

I frequently wake up over hot, around 3am.

I often use the bathroom and have a small drink of water - as much as anything - to cool down a bit.

Usually have trouble dropping off to sleep again - I don't think its that unusual to wake in the night.

I think the trick may be to:

1) Not worry about it - its normal enough - the worry is likely adding to your stress and amplifying the non sleeping

2) Try getting up and doing something for a little while - read a book , make a warm drink (not coffee!)- watch something on TV (I know there is a school of thought that 'media' causes these issues - but who cares). The kndle is a great idea.

I googled this while ago, and it seems that it's called biphasic sleep - sleep broken into 'first sleep' and 'second sleep'.

It seems that through the medieval times it was regarded as entirely normal.

This article is quite interesting: The forgotten medieval habit of 'two sleeps'

Seems at one stage people often got up and did productive things for a while between the sleeps.

I tried step 2 above for a while - it actually helped. But then I got lazy about it.

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#3278152 2-Sep-2024 09:58

Something that often - but not always - helps me settle back to sleep is listening to an audiobook. Typically for me this involves Audible and I use the Sleep Timer to switch it off after half an hour. A single earbud works fine for me, but a pillow speaker is an option as is having it on speaker but turned down low.

Novels which are enjoyable to listen to but don't require concentration have typically worked best, but biographies have also been good. I'm currently listening to Sam Neil's bio. It may take me weeks or months to get through one, and because I often miss bits it's not unusual for me to cycle back through them.

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johno1234

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#3278161 2-Sep-2024 10:26

My completely unqualified reaction is that a 36yo male ought to sleep through the night without having to get up to pee. Although in my case it’s an absolute must to do so before bed otherwise I’m guaranteed to have to get up in the night.

I wonder about eating and/or drinking within a few hours of bed. I don’t sleep at all well if I’ve had any salty or msg food or a few wines.

CokemonZ

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#3278162 2-Sep-2024 10:27

Gurezaemon:

David321:

I usually do not have to much trouble falling asleep (although it can take a while) but my problem is when I wake up sometime between midnight and 5am to use the bathroom and drink some water (which happens every night) It takes me hours to get back to sleep after returning to bed, sometimes I cant get back to sleep at all and I literally stay awake for hours until my alarm goes off to get up.

Have you tried reading during that time? I often wake up at 4-5 o'clock with the same issue.

I find reading a kindle (with its very low, non-glary lighting) a good way to calm the brain down, and usually after 10 or so minutes, I find myself drifting off.

Also, because the kindle has its own very gentle light which is totally unlike looking at a phone, it doesn't wake up my wife either, something which we found important when we had small kids.

Yep - I do this too, though more like 30 mins to an hour to get back to sleep.

Specifically nonsense fiction - scifi/fantasy that requires no brain space. Didnt work so well reading non fiction or business/skill/educational books.

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alasta

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#3278166 2-Sep-2024 10:40

johno1234: My completely unqualified reaction is that a 36yo male ought to sleep through the night without having to get up to pee. .

Admittedly I'm a bit older than that, but I get up every three or four hours to pee.

To the OP, have you considered what light you are exposing yourself to when you get up? Are you turning on the light in the bathroom? Are you retrieving a drink bottle from the fridge and exposing yourself to the light in there?

I have night lights to guide me towards the bathroom at home. If I'm staying somewhere else I use a torch and point it at the ceiling to diffuse the light.

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#3278167 2-Sep-2024 10:40

Check what you are eating/drinking perhaps. You are not 'older' and sleeping through the night without having to go to the toilet should be the norm. To much coffee? To much processed or high carb food? Is your bedroom dark, quiet and cooler? If you need a drink then have it ready by your bed so you don't have to get up. Avoid screens etc. Ultimately may pay to get a health check

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#3278168 2-Sep-2024 10:43

I cant deal with 8 hours sleep, If I sleep that long in one go I wake up worse than when I went to sleep so normally I will try to have a nap when I get home at 6:30ish, then get up around 9 and do productive stuff and then sleep again about 2-3 am to get another 5 hours or so in.

Everyone is different and forcing yourself into the schedule that works for other people is bad for your health and ends up with you always tired.

Richard rich.ms

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#3278169 2-Sep-2024 10:44

If you haven't had a physical in the last 3 months, then in my opinion, you should just go and get a general checked, a blood work up and mention to your GP you aren't sleeping as well as you were previously should be something you do.

Having said that, sleep patterns change over time. As others have mentioned, I can't highly enough recommend a kindle or similar that has no backlight, and read whilst lying flat (ie don't raise your head with a second pillow etc).

Ensure you have good sleep hygenie, room at a cold temperature, no screens for 1+ hour before sleeping.

Have you gained weight recently, you could be having sleep apnea.

Spyware

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#3278182 2-Sep-2024 12:23

I was started peeing around 6 times/night in 2015 - total 1.5 litres/night. Begged GP to see urologist but he wouldn't refer. In the end in 2021 I said I would refer myself, GP relented. Urologist gave me anti-diuretic hormone that made me nauseous and produced no diagnosis. One day I bought a blood pressure machine and found I had BP of 198/101. I went to after hours and luckily the bloods showed low potassium which doc thought was of no significance. I googled low potassium, had my doctor do the tests and found I had primary aldosteronism. Have competed the diagnostics (saline suppression, CT, adrenal vein sampling) that took one year through public health system. This saga took 9 years and I started treatment in July. My sleep is improving.

P.S. That is the short story.

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#3278184 2-Sep-2024 12:28

@Spyware Scary story. I hope you changed your GP.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

billgates

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#3278187 2-Sep-2024 12:42

Try Magnesium. Worked wonders for me. It takes around an hour to kick in so I take it before bed and generally now dont get up before 6AM at latest.

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allio

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#3278391 2-Sep-2024 21:05

johno1234: My completely unqualified reaction is that a 36yo male ought to sleep through the night without having to get up to pee. Although in my case it’s an absolute must to do so before bed otherwise I’m guaranteed to have to get up in the night.

I wonder about eating and/or drinking within a few hours of bed. I don’t sleep at all well if I’ve had any salty or msg food or a few wines.

I'm in a similar boat to the OP and usually pee 1-3 times in the night. In my case anyway I'm definitely not waking up because I need to pee - I'm waking up, and once I'm awake I'm aware of the fact that I vaguely need to go to the toilet. It's not remotely urgent but if I don't go, I lie there thinking about how I kind of need to pee instead of more relaxing topics.

If you're waking up busting to go and having to rush, then that's something else entirely and worth looking into.

When I can't sleep I agree with the suggestion of reading on a Kindle with the backlight on very low - after 30-45 minutes I feel tired again and usually drop off pretty quickly.

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