2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2806547 3-Nov-2021 08:57

So Sylvia, glen, and other malls..

Basically become a level 2 environment for people to get between all the OK to operate stores? (Aka meet their friend at an inside location without entering shops..) Like, where there are supermarket inside them now. Foot traffic exponential jump?

But under the guise of 3.2? Theres sure some oddities over the naming and core differences

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#2806548 3-Nov-2021 08:58

shk292:

Rikkitic:

Um, why do we need Americans to come here and tell us how to run our lives?

A really good question and I'm going to risk going political by suggesting looking at the Green Party caucus (past and present) for good examples of people who come to NZ to tell us we're doing it all wrong

Leave the party political out of this. I'm not talking about foreigners recruited as advisors or specialist experts, but self-invited butinskies who should either stay home or keep their mouths shut.

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GV27

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#2806556 3-Nov-2021 09:17

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-schools-estimate-several-thousand-staff-are-vaccine-resistant/A2X3LHTRCNNFLTDRHV7BXZOVO4/

Any teacher knowingly presenting a false vaccine exemption should be instantly suspended and referred to the Teacher's Council.

Scott3

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#2806558 3-Nov-2021 09:20

The really good news at the moment is NSW case numbers. There was a little blip after thy eased restriction's, but their daily case numbers have how established a clear downwards trend.

https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-cases/nsw

Basically gives us a clear pathway out of our restrictions. We now know that if we get NSW like vaccination rates (93.6% of 16+ first dose, 88.3% of 16+ 2 doses), we won't need harsh restrictions. - And we even can copy how they got such high vaccination rates by requiring vaccine passports to access anything non essential.

Oblivian: So Sylvia, glen, and other malls..

Basically become a level 2 environment for people to get between all the OK to operate stores? (Aka meet their friend at an inside location without entering shops..) Like, where there are supermarket inside them now. Foot traffic exponential jump?

But under the guise of 3.2? Theres sure some oddities over the naming and core differences

Based on Westfeild Newmarket when we stepped down to level 2 prior, malls will be a super risky environment.

Level 3, step 2 is unlikely to be much different - Obviously the cinema & nail care place etc. can't operate, food can only do contact less collection (and seating in the food court will be roped off or removed), and we will have masks.

But I would still expect large numbers of people on weekends in the common (indoor) area's, using the bathrooms etc. Capacity limits in stores will lead to queues at the door, further adding to congestion in the common area's.

So big & many people contact tracing will be very hard. If there is an environment where we should be doing vaccine requirements, this is it. I consider it far more risky than the likes of a rugby game at an outdoor stadium running 50% capacity.

networkn

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#2806561 3-Nov-2021 09:24

tdgeek:

True. End of the day no matter what experts they have as advisors, whether it be health or economy biased, many wont be happy anyway. Rock and a hard place, cannot win. It would certainly help if compliance was normal, then these conversations would not happen. Article today showing how many AKLDers dont or are lax at compliance, just a rough survey though, but its probably not far off the mark. You cant win with that no matter what health or economy bias may exist, already failed before the starting gun was fired

Compliance is a relative thing. NZ has a pretty compliant population by a vast majority. A l4 hard lockdown for a month with a set end and freedom of sorts at the end, is one thing. Approaching 11 weeks in Auckland, with much uncertainty, stress and for many, a FAR less than the optimal living/learning/earning situation, and expecting compliance, is a different thing. L4 lockdown was more lax than last time, more people were allowed to be out and about considered essential despite Delta being more transmissible. I agreed with the attempt to try and eliminate the second time, but ultimately felt it was a losing battle.

We were not prepared for Delta, are still not prepared for Delta and things are going to be really bad for the next couple of months.

It's extremely hard for anyone not in that situation to understand the challenges a protracted lockdown has on so many aspects of life. I don't agree with the rule-breakers, but I also get why some just feel they can't hold on any longer.

Aucklanders need the rest of the countries support, not judgement. We have done the majority of the heavy lifting for this pandemic, and there are so so many people at absolute breaking point.

tdgeek

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#2806565 3-Nov-2021 09:31

networkn:

tdgeek:

True. End of the day no matter what experts they have as advisors, whether it be health or economy biased, many wont be happy anyway. Rock and a hard place, cannot win. It would certainly help if compliance was normal, then these conversations would not happen. Article today showing how many AKLDers dont or are lax at compliance, just a rough survey though, but its probably not far off the mark. You cant win with that no matter what health or economy bias may exist, already failed before the starting gun was fired

Compliance is a relative thing. NZ has a pretty compliant population by a vast majority. A l4 hard lockdown for a month with a set end and freedom of sorts at the end, is one thing. Approaching 11 weeks in Auckland, with much uncertainty, stress and for many, a FAR less than the optimal living/learning/earning situation, and expecting compliance, is a different thing. L4 lockdown was more lax than last time, more people were allowed to be out and about considered essential despite Delta being more transmissible. I agreed with the attempt to try and eliminate the second time, but ultimately felt it was a losing battle.

We were not prepared for Delta, are still not prepared for Delta and things are going to be really bad for the next couple of months.

It's extremely hard for anyone not in that situation to understand the challenges a protracted lockdown has on so many aspects of life. I don't agree with the rule-breakers, but I also get why some just feel they can't hold on any longer.

Aucklanders need the rest of the countries support, not judgement. We have done the majority of the heavy lifting for this pandemic, and there are so so many people at absolute breaking point.

I get all that but its not judgement, its an observation. Ive commented before that I expect all Kiwis to be the same. Over it mentality. L4 lockdown had rule breakers from day one, essentially households and neighbours, and as it went on and on, more gave up. NZ was prepared for Delta, but they weren't prepared for more lockdowns. As Ive commented before the few spoilt it for the many

networkn

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#2806568 3-Nov-2021 09:35

tdgeek:

I get all that but its not judgement, its an observation. Ive commented before that I expect all Kiwis to be the same. Over it mentality. L4 lockdown had rule breakers from day one, essentially households and neighbours, and as it went on and on, more gave up. NZ was prepared for Delta, but they weren't prepared for more lockdowns. As Ive commented before the few spoilt it for the many

Medically, no, we were not, are not even close to prepared for Delta.

We have next to no negative pressure rooms in Auckland Hospitals, something that should have been in place in 2020, and won't be likely ready till early 2022. One tiny example.

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#2806569 3-Nov-2021 09:35

Scott3:

The really good news at the moment is NSW case numbers. There was a little blip after thy eased restriction's, but their daily case numbers have how established a clear downwards trend.

https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-cases/nsw

Basically gives us a clear pathway out of our restrictions. We now know that if we get NSW like vaccination rates (93.6% of 16+ first dose, 88.3% of 16+ 2 doses), we won't need harsh restrictions. - And we even can copy how they got such high vaccination rates by requiring vaccine passports to access anything non essential.

But the twist is that they are still having daily deaths (as they have done since August) - this indicates that those being infected are likely unvaccinated and with underlying co morbidities

NZ's recent outbreak has only seen two deaths, - I seriously don't think the NZ govt is ready to be announcing daily deaths...

While NZ hitting the same levels of vaccination as Australia could potentially see restrictions relaxed, the fact so much effort is now being thrown in to Maori vaccination makes me think the NZ govt will end up with a lot high vax rates ( overall) before it relaxes restrictions significantly, basically because it wants Maori vax rates to be near the rest of the population....

tdgeek

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#2806573 3-Nov-2021 09:41

networkn:

Medically, no, we were not, are not even close to prepared for Delta.

In your opinion. Lockdown still works, it just takes longer, assuming compliance was the same as has been previously. Despite the compliance issues, including the early events which was a huge boost to the virus, its taken many weeks for it to start to blow out big. The opportunity was there IMO, but it seems here and globally humans are over it

cokemaster

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#2806589 3-Nov-2021 10:03

I do agree with @networkn.

I’m going to attract some major flack for posting this. But I’m going to give the government and population a few more weeks, then I’m done.

All of my friends and family who are eligible are vaccinated (and have been for some time), I’m not going to waste away in my home office because of vaccine holdouts or lack of preparation from DHBs/ministry of health/government.

I’m not going to attend protests, going to meet with strangers and I’ll still mask up. It’s fair to say a dinner or two might go down.

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#2806594 3-Nov-2021 10:08

cokemaster: I do agree with @networkn.

I’m going to attract some major flack for posting this. But I’m going to give the government and population a few more weeks, then I’m done.

All of my friends and family who are eligible are vaccinated (and have been for some time), I’m not going to waste away in my home office because of vaccine holdouts or lack of preparation from DHBs/ministry of health/government.

I’m not going to attend protests, going to meet with strangers and I’ll still mask up. It’s fair to say a dinner or two might go down.

Fair enough too. The elimination had to be cancelled, to be suppression so the vaccine race can catch up instead, and thats not too far off

I wasn't bagging the emotional issues now, just the lack of compliance earlier, which has led us to where we are now

wellygary

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#2806596 3-Nov-2021 10:10

cokemaster: I do agree with @networkn.

I’m going to attract some major flack for posting this. But I’m going to give the government and population a few more weeks, then I’m done.

All of my friends and family who are eligible are vaccinated (and have been for some time), I’m not going to waste away in my home office because of vaccine holdouts or lack of preparation from DHBs/ministry of health/government.

And this is the horns of the dilemma that government sits,

if it relaxes restrictions for those double vaxxed there will be increased transmission and more cases (albeit mostly mild cases) -

But there will also be an increase in cases amongst those not vaccinated, and there will be more deaths amongst those groups...

I can't really see the PM fronting the daily death toll like AUS has been doing over the last few weeks...

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#2806601 3-Nov-2021 10:18

My hospital 100% occupancy, elective surgery being cancelled and no covid in our area.

When it arrives its going to be interesting

shk292

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#2806614 3-Nov-2021 10:43

Rikkitic:

Leave the party political out of this. I'm not talking about foreigners recruited as advisors or specialist experts, but self-invited butinskies who should either stay home or keep their mouths shut.

First, I wasn't being party-political; I raised a valid observation that if you want to look for foreign "buttinskies" then there are more obvious examples of the nutter at this press conference. This is very germane to point that you raised.

Second, nor am I talking about advisors or special experts, I'm talking about people who come to NZ from places such as Australia, Iran, Mexico and the USA to then become MPs and seem to have a primary function of telling us how badly their new home country is being run. If there are examples in other parties I'm very happy for these to be pointed out.

kiwikurt

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#2806619 3-Nov-2021 10:49

shk292:
Rikkitic:

Leave the party political out of this. I'm not talking about foreigners recruited as advisors or specialist experts, but self-invited butinskies who should either stay home or keep their mouths shut.

First, I wasn't being party-political; I raised a valid observation that if you want to look for foreign "buttinskies" then there are more obvious examples of the nutter at this press conference. This is very germane to point that you raised.

Second, nor am I talking about advisors or special experts, I'm talking about people who come to NZ from places such as Australia, Iran, Mexico and the USA to then become MPs and seem to have a primary function of telling us how badly their new home country is being run. If there are examples in other parties I'm very happy for these to be pointed out.

This is getting really off topic but you do realise people from all parties do this even if they can trace their lineage back to Hawaiki. This is what should happen to a greater or lesser extent in a representative Parliament. Trying to draw a bow between a Steve Bannon acolyte is way more that a stretch.

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