2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2855214 23-Jan-2022 15:50

Otagolad: I’d be a bit careful racing to get a booster at three months when Pfizer, CDC, UK BHA etc have said at least 5 months between 2nd dose and getting a booster as your body needs the longer time to produce a stronger response, particularly given the poor advice from Labour/MoH that was given on the timing of the initial doses (10-12 weeks is preferable not three). This all leads back to poor planning (not surprised at all) from Labour in obtaining the vaccines in the first place. Based on me getting my 2nd dose 12 weeks after first dose I’ll be getting my booster at the end of April.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-booster

https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/07/26/nz-urged-to-consider-longer-gap-between-each-pfizer-jab/

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2021/05/covid-pfizer-vaccination-interval-antibody-response.aspx

Clearly if you are at risk, then a booster at three months makes sense but if you want optimal protection you will have waited 12 weeks or so between first and second doses and 5-6 months for your booster.

I would not wait for an arbitrary time interval during an omicron outbreak.

If you get omicron the advantage of waiting is completely negated.

And most of us will get omicron in the coming weeks.

If you wait...for more optimal antibody production, the wave could be over and done with.

Plus, after ten weeks the neutralizing antibodies wane at 6 months interval anyway.

Now is the time to get boosted, do not wait, the threat is imminent, the therapeutic Nirvana of a six month window is meaningless if you get omicron now.

I get what you are saying about people who are at risk, however unfortunately there is no safe way to determine whether ANY person is likely to mount an ideal immune response, because we cannot know our unique immunological factors.

Always follow the health advice. We might be getting GEN II Jabs next anyway.

Just keep swimming...

Paul1977

5047 posts

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#2855215 23-Jan-2022 15:53

cruxis:

Questions, If you have no comorbidities, and are extremely fit. Are You are better off waiting the optimal time for your booster? Which is/was 6 months or still get at 4 months? I admit, I am little confused on this one.

Only if you don’t get Covid during the extra 2 months.

Oblivian

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#2855216 23-Jan-2022 15:55

mattwnz:

Would vaccination centres turn away people who turn up after 3 months instead of 4, if they have supply on hand to do them?

The register system does in no way shape or form allow for you to register the person unless today's date is last jab date+4. Infact it gives a big redflag error result.

As heard many times while waiting for mine as a couple come in, one border worker and other not. And non was denied as the system wouldn't allow. Much to their complaining to try bypass a 2nd visit.

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2855217 23-Jan-2022 15:59

Get boosted as soon as you qualify.

Come on people, we have just finished racing a Delta wave by rappidly erecting a vaccine wall.

People need to stop thinking about some theoretical self medicating in the face of an imminent threat, and people need to really stop thinking of boosters as a individual protection against omicron.

It should be very clear to all of us, that the best personal protection is if the collective react rappidly vaccinate on mass.

What if we all decide to wait? Consider the health care impacts and how that will place each of us at risk when there are no beds.

Just keep swimming...

Otagolad

364 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2855218 23-Jan-2022 16:05

Sup:
Otagolad: I’d be a bit careful racing to get a booster at three months when Pfizer, CDC, UK BHA etc have said at least 5 months between 2nd dose and getting a booster as your body needs the longer time to produce a stronger response, particularly given the poor advice from Labour/MoH that was given on the timing of the initial doses (10-12 weeks is preferable not three). This all leads back to poor planning (not surprised at all) from Labour in obtaining the vaccines in the first place. Based on me getting my 2nd dose 12 weeks after first dose I’ll be getting my booster at the end of April.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-booster

https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/07/26/nz-urged-to-consider-longer-gap-between-each-pfizer-jab/

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2021/05/covid-pfizer-vaccination-interval-antibody-response.aspx

Clearly if you are at risk, then a booster at three months makes sense but if you want optimal protection you will have waited 12 weeks or so between first and second doses and 5-6 months for your booster.
I would not wait for an arbitrary time interval during an omicron outbreak.

If you get omicron the advantage of waiting is completely negated.

And most of us will get omicron in the coming weeks.

If you wait...for more optimal antibody production, the wave could be over and done with.

Plus, after ten weeks the neutralizing antibodies wane at 6 months interval anyway.

Now is the time to get boosted, do not wait, the threat is imminent, the therapeutic Nirvana of a six month window is meaningless if you get omicron now.

I get what you are saying about people who are at risk, however unfortunately there is no safe way to determine whether ANY person is likely to mount an ideal immune response, because we cannot know our unique immunological factors.

Always follow the health advice. We might be getting GEN II Jabs next anyway.

Even at four months I can’t get a booster until the beginning of April anyway by which time this wave will have peaked - as a fit, healthy individual with no underlying health issues and who waited the recommended 12 weeks between my first two doses thereby improving t-cell response (which evidence says is more beneficial than the fast waning antibody response), I’m happy to wait an extra month.

Also, remember that for the vast majority of double vaccinated individuals omicron will not result in serious illness or hospitalisation - but again, if you’re at risk then yes you should go get it.

ezbee

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#2855221 23-Jan-2022 16:13

Not everyone has gone for 3 month booster, though countries that were mainly AstraZeneca may have for that reason.
Sinovac not so effective it seems so Singapore exception for that.

Singapore is running 5 months for booster after mRNA vaccine, 3 months after for sinovac ( In that case third must be mRNA ).
https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19/vaccination/faqs---booster-doses

Latest CDC release about 5 months for Moderna has table in it with recommendation of 5 months for Pfizer.
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-shortens-interval-booster-dose-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-five-months

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/03/health/covid-19-vaccine-booster-eligibility/index.html

Being USA you can probably walk in and get what you want when you want, but recommendation is still.

Canada , well at least Alberta is 5 months unless special conditions. Ontario and BC info I found had theirs at 6 ?
https://www.alberta.ca/coronavirus-info-for-albertans.aspx

If you have a particular vulnerability don't hesitate to consult your doctor,
as there can be clinical reasons for boost sooner for those with known conditions.

Otagolad

364 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2855222 23-Jan-2022 16:15

I wasn’t thinking only of myself when I waited 12 weeks between initial doses - I was thinking that my immunity wouldn’t wane as quickly as someone who got both does by early Oct/Nov and therefore I am less likely already to catch and pass it on than those who only waited three weeks. Also, by waiting 12 weeks, I’m less likely to get seriously sick and therefore be a burden on the health system.

People who were educated and sensible and followed real medical advice are not the issue; the blame lies squarely at Labour’s door and their panicked roll-out because they hadn’t planned properly and had to reduce vaccine timelines to three weeks. We could all have had boosters late last year if we’d started the vaccine roll-out months earlier.

I’m comfortable I’ve done the right thing by my family, my business and importantly my community.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Batman

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#2855226 23-Jan-2022 16:44

Otagolad:

Here’s a good explanation as to why you need a longer period for the booster, and the evidence also is that the booster is highly effective after seven days, unlike the initial two doses.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-26/boosters-prevent-covid-better-after-six-month-wait-doctors-say

https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-shows-how-fast-covid-booster-shot-protection-kicks-in-2021-11?amp

when you have a wave of covid filling up your already full hospitals the correct question to ask, for the benefit of the collective population

- is getting a booster at 3 months better than no booster

the wrong question to ask for the country's collective success would be

- is getting a booster at 6 months better than getting a booster at 3 months, 4 months (though this may still be a fine question for an individual)

so the correctness of everything in life, depends on what you're trying to achieve.

do not speed, do not beat the red right. fine if you're buying groceries. but not fine if your passenger is bleeding out from a gunshot wound, even if you're not a ambulance driver

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2855231 23-Jan-2022 17:19

Given when you go to the supermarket in the next 6 weeks, the patrons and staff will have asymptomatic omicron, or they would be forced to shop due to a lack of prep....well you want to be boosted in that type of massive outbreak.

We are literally all going to be exposed to clouds of virus, hundreds of thousands of infections.

Maximum protection protocols are now, the siren is sounding, the lights are flashing, follow the advice of the vaccine advisory group, end of.

Just keep swimming...

Scott3

3970 posts

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#2855238 23-Jan-2022 17:53

mattwnz:

I was wondering why they bothered to drop northland down to alert level orange when most of us probably knew that the entire country would be going to red in a few days.

...

I think It was a good strategic move.

Opportunity to pat northland on the back for achieving high vaccination rates. And to indicate that the government hadn't simply forgotten northland
Send the message to those in northland who are vaccinated, that they are in the serious minority.
Brings the whole country into the same Orange level, simplifying messaging for any shifts to red.
Avoids calls for north land to be moved from red to red+ for omicron, or other stuff like road blocks.
Dropping to orange, and raising back to red in response to the situation worsening sends a message that this is serious. Hopefully causing people to take it seriously (rush on vaccines etc.)

Not really any huge cost of moving red -> orange -> red. It's not like businesses will be discarding their operating in red toolkit. The move back to red has been well signaled.

alexx

867 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2855240 23-Jan-2022 18:07

Otagolad:

I’d be a bit careful racing to get a booster at three months when Pfizer, CDC, UK BHA etc have said at least 5 months between 2nd dose and getting a booster as your body needs the longer time to produce a stronger response, particularly given the poor advice from Labour/MoH that was given on the timing of the initial doses (10-12 weeks is preferable not three). This all leads back to poor planning (not surprised at all) from Labour in obtaining the vaccines in the first place. Based on me getting my 2nd dose 12 weeks after first dose I’ll be getting my booster at the end of April.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-booster

https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/07/26/nz-urged-to-consider-longer-gap-between-each-pfizer-jab/

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2021/05/covid-pfizer-vaccination-interval-antibody-response.aspx

Clearly if you are at risk, then a booster at three months makes sense but if you want optimal protection you will have waited 12 weeks or so between first and second doses and 5-6 months for your booster.

I set my own gap for 1st and 2nd dose at around 8 weeks and several other people I know set their gap at 6 weeks, but everything is a trade off. You want to get vaccinated (and boosted) before your greatest risk of exposure and in 2021, no-one really knew when that would be. Only after the case numbers started to go down we could see that the greatest risk might have been in November 2021, at least in Auckland.

We can all be wise after the event.

Also, while there were a number of studies that suggested 8 or 12 weeks spacing between 1st and 2nd dose, I don't know how many if any were peer reviewed.

Right now it seems like the greatest risk of exposure in the next 6 months, might come in the next 6-8 weeks, but no-one can be sure of this. Right now, WHO (updated 21 January 2022) are saying "4 – 6 months after completion of the primary vaccination series" for Pfizer.

https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/who-can-take-the-pfizer-biontech-covid-19--vaccine

#include <standard.disclaimer>

tdgeek

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#2855241 23-Jan-2022 18:10

mattwnz:

I was wondering why they bothered to drop northland down to alert level orange when most of us probably knew that the entire country would be going to red in a few days.

We can see what has happened in Australia. We have had quite a head start but not enough people boosted, and only boosted people have maximum protection against Omicron. It should have been set to 3 months, not 4 months, like they have done in other countries. Not enough eligible people have gone to get boosted, and those people who have to wait until February or March to get the booster could have got it by now. IMO it is crazy that we are using the red alert system, which was designed for Delta (which has a far lower R0 rate), and the traffic light system was designed for high vaccination rates. Where we now know that the current two doses need a booster for Omicron, to have the most effectiveness. They could have easily brought in more restrictions to control the spread. IMO we are going to have to flatten the curve over a longer period of time to try an suppress the spread. If only MIQ had been 14 days and not 10, and some of these outlier cases that were detected in the community after they had been in MIQ would have been blocked while in MIQ.

What is your solution? Use numbers and dates

tdgeek

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#2855242 23-Jan-2022 18:18

Sup: Get boosted as soon as you qualify.

Come on people, we have just finished racing a Delta wave by rappidly erecting a vaccine wall.

People need to stop thinking about some theoretical self medicating in the face of an imminent threat, and people need to really stop thinking of boosters as a individual protection against omicron.

It should be very clear to all of us, that the best personal protection is if the collective react rappidly vaccinate on mass.

What if we all decide to wait? Consider the health care impacts and how that will place each of us at risk when there are no beds.

100%. I got boosted Friday. Was happy to wait in case it took a while (to lessen waning) I decided its time, based on the potential issues. So boost now. From what I have read here (unsure if correct) future boosters dont add much. If so, get boosted now. In the near future, March +, there will be an Omicron jab.

Maximise now, to minismise later

tdgeek

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#2855244 23-Jan-2022 18:22

Sup: Given when you go to the supermarket in the next 6 weeks, the patrons and staff will have asymptomatic omicron, or they would be forced to shop due to a lack of prep....well you want to be boosted in that type of massive outbreak.

We are literally all going to be exposed to clouds of virus, hundreds of thousands of infections.

Maximum protection protocols are now, the siren is sounding, the lights are flashing, follow the advice of the vaccine advisory group, end of.

Sorry but you are commenting that this is the plague. Do we want hundreds of infections of Delta or many more with the less dangerous Omicron? I respect and value your posts but fro what I read, Omicron is the Black Plague.

tdgeek

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#2855246 23-Jan-2022 18:23

alexx:

We can all be wise after the event.

Yep, 100%.

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