2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2543943 18-Aug-2020 20:31

Rikkitic:

tdgeek:

Its like spam, looks real so many will run with it. Lawyers are generally at the top of the trust curve, so I am sure many took him on board.

https://abovethelaw.com/2014/09/scientific-study-concludes-no-one-trusts-lawyers/

Interesting. My experiences have been excellent.

freitasm

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#2543947 18-Aug-2020 20:44

vexxxboy:

wouldnt have mattered to me , i dont have a phone.

Oh, sure... The outlier case. It makes no difference on the spirit. You could always have signed the logbook.

rugrat

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#2544007 18-Aug-2020 20:56

Compliance will be lower if people perceive that the outbreak is a government failing. People did their job in the first lock down and now the government has failed to keep it out at the boarder.

People had no say in how many allowed to return at once, precautions taken with staff involved at front lines.

Police educating approach to rule breakers rather then something to deter, Judges sympathetic to quarantine breakers circumstances rather then send a message to anyone else considering breaking quarantine.

Also saw in one article were not able to test front line staff at required rate as too many, are they running more quarantine facilities then what they can handle?

If the government had closed boarders earlier first lock down wouldn't have been needed, but I understand then there would've been all these protests about over reaction and violation of rights, just as there are some still vocal about it.

If only freight came in and easier to be careful with it, wouldn't need any crippling lock downs, oh well we got just over three months before virus found a hole in the current managing of people coming into the country, and now a lot more then the tourist sector is suffering.

I'm getting sick of the government always saying not looking to blame, when things are not being done that are suppose to be done.

dafman

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#2544025 18-Aug-2020 21:30

Brickbat for Metlink Wellington today:

Conductor on Kapiti train this morning not wearing a mask, despite having to get within 1 metre of every passenger.
Waikanae bus this evening, no QR code available, despite being required by law.

Gurezaemon

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#2544028 18-Aug-2020 21:45

Regarding the cries to get rid of the people in charge of borders and testing. Firing people because of decisions that are proved wrong in hindsight is short-sighted.

Stalin got rid of (well, executed) generals who didn't perform during the early stages of the Axis invasion of the USSR, because of other factors that were later proved to be mostly out of those generals' control. The result? The USSR had a horrible couple of years until they could find competent generals to lead armies, instead of politically expedient yes-men who didn't have the experience to do what was needed.

Most of us, myself included, have screwed up big time once or twice in our professional lives, and been given second or even third chances.

People are human, including highly-qualified, highly-paid people who are in the public eye. It's just that their mistakes may be more visible than our own. The occasional oversight in a situation that is ever-evolving and unprecedented is not comparable to repeated incompetence or maliciousness, and I really wish more people would cut them more slack.

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#2544030 18-Aug-2020 21:51

rugrat:

Compliance will be lower if people perceive that the outbreak is a government failing. People did their job in the first lock down and now the government has failed to keep it out at the boarder.

People had no say in how many allowed to return at once, precautions taken with staff involved at front lines.

Police educating approach to rule breakers rather then something to deter, Judges sympathetic to quarantine breakers circumstances rather then send a message to anyone else considering breaking quarantine.

Also saw in one article were not able to test front line staff at required rate as too many, are they running more quarantine facilities then what they can handle?

If the government had closed boarders earlier first lock down wouldn't have been needed, but I understand then there would've been all these protests about over reaction and violation of rights, just as there are some still vocal about it.

If only freight came in and easier to be careful with it, wouldn't need any crippling lock downs, oh well we got just over three months before virus found a hole in the current managing of people coming into the country, and now a lot more then the tourist sector is suffering.

I'm getting sick of the government always saying not looking to blame, when things are not being done that are suppose to be done.

agree 100%

wellygary

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#2544038 18-Aug-2020 22:18

dafman:

Brickbat for Metlink Wellington today:

Conductor on Kapiti train this morning not wearing a mask, despite having to get within 1 metre of every passenger.
Waikanae bus this evening, no QR code available, despite being required by law.

Nope, not required on Buses, its only used on trains and Ferries, on buses Snapper is an acceptable alternative in the eyes of the law

https://www.metlink.org.nz/news/metlink-leading-the-way-on-journey-tracking/

Valid from: 18/08/2020 12:00am

Metlink and the Wellington Region continues to be at the forefront of the COVID-19 response by working with the Government on the use of QR codes for journey tracking.

Metlink general manager, Scott Gallacher says, “The care and safety of our passengers and the Metlink team is of critical importance to us. So over the last two months, we have been working with the Government to trial the use of QR codes across the Metlink network, to assist the Government's contact tracing app and help passengers track their journeys.

“Currently, QR codes have been rolled out on trains and ferries to encourage the public to check in when using our services. Passengers on buses don’t need to do anything different as Snapper cards act as a journey record for customers when people tag on and off. We continue to encourage people to register their Snapper cards or to make note of their journeys if they are SuperGold Card and cash users.”

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DS248

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#2544077 18-Aug-2020 23:00

Sounds very familiar (& on the same day!)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-18/nsw-coronavirus-hotel-quarantine-security-guard-investigated/12570336

mattwnz

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#2544087 18-Aug-2020 23:50

DS248:

Sounds very familiar (& on the same day!)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-18/nsw-coronavirus-hotel-quarantine-security-guard-investigated/12570336

I think we are learning that it could be more contagious in certain conditions than we first thought. They say they are wearing PPE, and testing is just a backstop, but we already know that PPE doesn't prevent all medical staff in hospitals from getting it.

I am also wondering about ventilation systems at hotels, as it is apparently airborne to a degree, in that the droplets can apparently remain in the air and be moved around in the air. So whether people necessarily need to come into direct contact with one another at a hotel, to pass on the virus.

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#2544098 19-Aug-2020 06:35

wellygary:
“Currently, QR codes have been rolled out on trains and ferries to encourage the public to check in when using our services. Passengers on buses don’t need to do anything different as Snapper cards act as a journey record for customers when people tag on and off. We continue to encourage people to register their Snapper cards or to make note of their journeys if they are SuperGold Card and cash users.”

This is where the attitude of some organizations is disappointing. They're talking the easy line and doing the minimum instead of being proactive and just rolling out the QR codes for buses.

dafman

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#2544183 19-Aug-2020 08:23

cshwone:
wellygary:

“Currently, QR codes have been rolled out on trains and ferries to encourage the public to check in when using our services. Passengers on buses don’t need to do anything different as Snapper cards act as a journey record for customers when people tag on and off. We continue to encourage people to register their Snapper cards or to make note of their journeys if they are SuperGold Card and cash users.”

This is where the attitude of some organizations is disappointing. They're talking the easy line and doing the minimum instead of being proactive and just rolling out the QR codes for buses.

The government have been emphasising the need to unify all contract tracing under the one government app and utilising it across all Metlink services MUST be more efficient than running separate anciliary systems? Buses are high risk becuase of limited social distancing, I mean, how difficult would it be for Metlink to simply install the QR code on buses instead? And if there is a legal requirement to display QR codes, do they have the authority to choose to depart because they think they can do just as well?

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#2544194 19-Aug-2020 08:39

Rikkitic:
No one trust lawyers.
https://abovethelaw.com/2014/09/scientific-study-concludes-no-one-trusts-lawyers/

Some of the most ethical people I've known are lawyers, but these are the ones that also do a lot of free work with the disenfranchised.

The more money oriented lawyers are like corporations are like tigers, lions and bears (oh my.)

You don't turn you back on them and "trust, but verify" (Russian: Доверяй, но проверяй)

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#2544197 19-Aug-2020 08:46

celebrity family hit hard by covid https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=12357596

Scott3

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#2544246 19-Aug-2020 09:04

Covid 19 coronavirus: Health Minister Chris Hipkins' concerns over airline crew coming through the border; new details of Rydges hotel case

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357662

I'm not sure that meeting with Air NZ is of value. They have been pumping dubious information into the public sphere for some time. For example:

That they do not need to isolate their international based staff, due to procedures & PPE in place, despite us knowing that procedures & PPE is not completly effective.
That we do not need to be concerned about the risk of the virus spreading to their staff on the managed isolation charter flights due to the Hospital grade air filtration on their jet aircraft (despite their turboprop aircraft having been used for that purpose, and a documented history from the previous SARS outbreak of corona virus's spreading on jet aircraft.) As a closing note, hospitals also have hospital grade air handling, and that hasn't stopped multiple staff from getting sick in that workplace in NZ.

For something this important, the ministry of health should be simply choosing the best strategy, and requiring all airlines with NZ based crew to comply.

As a side note, offshore based crew is a major gaping hole. These people get bused to a normal hotel, with none of the risk management steps or security arrangements of a managed isolation hotel.

Should note that with the high potential consequences, all solutions should be low trust. We shouldn't be taking air crew's word that they didn't go nightclubbing in the USA etc...

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#2544252 19-Aug-2020 09:16

Scott3:

Covid 19 coronavirus: Health Minister Chris Hipkins' concerns over airline crew coming through the border; new details of Rydges hotel case

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357662

I'm not sure that meeting with Air NZ is of value. They have been pumping dubious information into the public sphere for some time. For example:

That they do not need to isolate their international based staff, due to procedures & PPE in place, despite us knowing that procedures & PPE is not completly effective.
That we do not need to be concerned about the risk of the virus spreading to their staff on the managed isolation charter flights due to the Hospital grade air filtration on their jet aircraft (despite their turboprop aircraft having been used for that purpose, and a documented history from the previous SARS outbreak of corona virus's spreading on jet aircraft.) As a closing note, hospitals also have hospital grade air handling, and that hasn't stopped multiple staff from getting sick in that workplace in NZ.
For something this important, the ministry of health should be simply choosing the best strategy, and requiring all airlines with NZ based crew to comply.

As a side note, offshore based crew is a major gaping hole. These people get bused to a normal hotel, with none of the risk management steps or security arrangements of a managed isolation hotel.

Should note that with the high potential consequences, all solutions should be low trust. We shouldn't be taking air crew's word that they didn't go nightclubbing in the USA etc...

every time i hear on the news "we have no new cases" "we have no community transmission for x days"

it just sickened me to know there was no testing and people were mixing so what was the point of those statements. now all sorts of blaming and excuses but i better stop right here or else

*OTOH, i don't think any other govt (as we have seen in 195 countries) can do a lot better, and it is also possible that - no matter what you do, it was going to come in anyway.

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