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ezbee
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  #2548739 24-Aug-2020 14:35
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On Positive side.

 

Level 3 does reduce by many orders of magnitude the number of indoor environments people may gather.
Pawing the latest power tools at hardware store, or drinking in a bar, and musty conference rooms at work etc.

 

Certainly containment of this to close to Auckland seems to have been achieved.

 

While maybe only 50-75% wearing masks in Supermarket, it still gives virus a lot less opportunity to transfer.
Everytime someone sees someone in a mask maybe a pause to think and exercises more caution next time. 
On my trip at least people did seem to be keeping a bit of a distance either way. 
I can always try the funny walk if they don't.
Supermarket I went to was controlling numbers inside so it felt comfortable.

 

Well apart from 1 person who decided Supermarket shopping was opportunity to have a loud argument on their phone.

 

Number of potential contacts reduced by quite large numbers, this really clamps down on spread .
https://theconversation.com/how-to-flatten-the-curve-of-coronavirus-a-mathematician-explains-133514

 

While large groups outdoors is not ideal, its also not the same as being in an unventilated bar, or café, pictures can compress distance. 
Large number of people on narrow bush trails, well that's not so nice, people do need to think a bit.
Yeh more of an advertising blitz would have been nice to remind people.

 

Perfection no, but virus spread opportunity is reduced greatly, so its far from pointless.

 

Even so called superspreaders also need a suitable superspreading environment.
Its combination of the superspreader and a trip to one or more bars, churches , weddings, funerals, enclosed spaces etc. 




tdgeek
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  #2548761 24-Aug-2020 14:49
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mattwnz:

 

Instant fines people for not wearing masks(make mask wearing mandatory first in level 3). Fine people for not following the rules. They are doing this in Australia. It is going to cost the country far too much if the lockdown continues due to people not following the rules. As we are near the end of an infection cycle in lockdown, we shouldn't really be getting any new cases that are not linked to household contacts. If there are infections in workplaces that have occurred within L3 restrictions, then where whose people socially distancing properly and following workplace procedures?

 

It seems from media reports and photos in Auckland (people playing basketball on closed courts etc), there were people flouting the lockdown, and it seemed worse from what was reported, than in our initial level 3 lockdown. I am guessing it is solely based on complacency and people thinking that it is already contained. Rather than acting like they have Covid, which should be the message.

 

I can see the lockdown being extended by another week on both levels based on the trends, which should have dropped anyway due to it being a weekend and less testing being done.

 

 

Cant agree with much here

 

Fines? AUS has been fining for a good while now, flouting heaven. Im ricvh , doenst affcet ,me,

 

Complacency? No. People arent resting on their laurels, they can't be bothered. You have a serious issue and that involve humans, it will NEVER go well. You will ALWAYS have these flouting can't be bothered, break the law scenarios. If you wanted security there, you go prisons or 100% bans. If you dont you have fully accepted leaks

 

I assume an extension, that will be a problem, If not, still a problem, cannot win


tdgeek
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  #2548766 24-Aug-2020 14:53
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mattwnz:

 

 

 

Instant fines people for not wearing masks(make mask wearing mandatory first in level 3). Fine people for not following the rules.

 

 

Actually Id go fines. They have to hurt. Poor person gets fined $100 for mild flouting, that will hurt when IRD takes it from their next pay/benefit. Bigly. Keep doubling it. On a decent salary, ramp it up but it must be taken by the IRD from pay or bank, and quick. None of this $5 a week BS that removes the penalty.




Handle9
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  #2548769 24-Aug-2020 14:56
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freitasm:

concordnz: The worst thing an elderly person could do is ride a bus or Train - they are the very people at 'worst' risk. Far better they take a taxi - or have a designignated family member drive them.



And for those who could, stay home at all times. This is a lockdown Level 3, not a holiday. If you are at risk and can arrange for someone to safely deliver food/goods to your doorstep, do it. If not, then try to minimise going out, contact with others at all times.


Level 3 means people stay home, with their bubble, other than essential movements - work, essentials shopping. You can have one extended bubble and they cannot have any other extended bubble. Otherwise STAY HOME and when outside keep social distancing.


People are thinking Auckland Level 3 means free for all, FFS. It seems some people are acting like idiots now.



If there is no meaningful enforcement then what do you expect?

GV27
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  #2548785 24-Aug-2020 15:21
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L2 from midnight Sunday. 

 

I can easily see that being deferred. 


freitasm
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  #2548788 24-Aug-2020 15:23
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Masks required in public transport and aeroplanes on Level 2.





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Oblivian
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  #2548791 24-Aug-2020 15:26
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freitasm:

 

Masks required in public transport and aeroplanes on Level 2.

 

 

(and above) starting Monday - the day after the expected change to lvl 2... perfect sense right now right?

 

Or not.

 

(Due to legal needing to finalise it before the enforcement date)


 
 
 

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mattwnz
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  #2548811 24-Aug-2020 15:49
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tdgeek:

 

mattwnz:

 

 

 

Instant fines people for not wearing masks(make mask wearing mandatory first in level 3). Fine people for not following the rules.

 

 

Actually Id go fines. They have to hurt. Poor person gets fined $100 for mild flouting, that will hurt when IRD takes it from their next pay/benefit. Bigly. Keep doubling it. On a decent salary, ramp it up but it must be taken by the IRD from pay or bank, and quick. None of this $5 a week BS that removes the penalty.

 

 

 

 

We already have fines for other infringements of rules. This is isn't any different, but potentially very damaging to the economy if they cause it to spread. Australia are doing it, and I haven't seen  much criticism of their rules around  fining over not wearing masking, or being out,  nor of them charging people or their isolation stay..  Some people will only take notice when it hits them in their pocket. I mean we can get fined hundreds for parking fines, or making a simple driving error.

 

As I suspected,the current lockdowns will continue for nearly another week for all of NZ.


mattwnz
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  #2548812 24-Aug-2020 15:52
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GV27:

 

L2 from midnight Sunday. 

 

I can easily see that being deferred. 

 

 

 

 

I am not sure this time. But I guess it depends on how the spread goes this week. I just hope we don't start to get cases popping up in the rest of NZ over this next week.

The fact that we don't  know where this outbreak came from is a concern, because it appears a process has failed somewhere, and unless that is fixed and the hole plugged, it could happen again.


vexxxboy
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  #2548855 24-Aug-2020 15:57
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mattwnz:

 

 

 

We already have fines for other infringements of rules. This is isn't any different, but potentially very damaging to the economy if they cause it to spread. Australia are doing it, and I haven't seen  much criticism of their rules around  fining over not wearing masking, or being out,  nor of them charging people or their isolation stay..  Some people will only take notice when it hits them in their pocket. I mean we can get fined hundreds for parking fines, or making a simple driving error.

 

As I suspected,the current lockdowns will continue for nearly another week for all of NZ.

 

 

do fines really work, i never go the speed limit and have never been caught going over it,Mobile phones in cars, the fines dont seem to stop people doing it , littering fines dont stop people, i could go on . If people want to do something then the threat of a fine wont stop them.





Common sense is not as common as you think.


concordnz
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  #2548860 24-Aug-2020 16:06
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@vexxboy The fact that you "never go over the speed limit" - proves that fines work (when enforced) - sadly the Police are "missing in action" with their legal responsibility to enforce the Law around Covid.

They have the powers & tools - they are simply 'asleep at the wheel'. - their lack of action is 50% response for the willingness of people to flout the rules (no obvious concequences)

If they stepped up & did their jobs - we would have far better compliance.

mattwnz
20164 posts

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  #2548862 24-Aug-2020 16:08
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vexxxboy:

 

mattwnz:

 

 

 

We already have fines for other infringements of rules. This is isn't any different, but potentially very damaging to the economy if they cause it to spread. Australia are doing it, and I haven't seen  much criticism of their rules around  fining over not wearing masking, or being out,  nor of them charging people or their isolation stay..  Some people will only take notice when it hits them in their pocket. I mean we can get fined hundreds for parking fines, or making a simple driving error.

 

As I suspected,the current lockdowns will continue for nearly another week for all of NZ.

 

 

do fines really work, i never go the speed limit and have never been caught going over it,Mobile phones in cars, the fines dont seem to stop people doing it , littering fines dont stop people, i could go on . If people want to do something then the threat of a fine wont stop them.

 

 

 

 

It would stop many, but obviously not everyone. That is where dobbing people in could help too, like people do with people using their mobiles in cars. eg *555 them. The fine for mobiles in cars aren't high enough IMO , which is why some people see the risk vs reward not being worth it, as not taking a call may have a higher business cost, than the fine. Yes it affects lower income people more, so maybe having he infringement listed on someones police record could be an idea for a limited period of time, as we need to remember that these are exceptional times, and we need to think outside the box.

 

But personally , the risk of getting a speeding fine, stops me from speeding. Likewise not using a phone in the car.


Oblivian
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  #2548869 24-Aug-2020 16:19
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concordnz: @vexxboy The fact that you "never go over the speed limit" - proves that fines work (when enforced) - sadly the Police are "missing in action" with their legal responsibility to enforce the Law around Covid.

 

You added in an 'over' that wasn't there..


grimwulf
121 posts

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  #2548881 24-Aug-2020 16:26
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Righto. 

 

Masks are mandatory.

 

Without meaningful enforcement or penalties, people will simply not comply - the same idiots that went to the beach at the weekend are the same ones that will be cramming themselves on board buses and trains and planes and refusing to wear masks.

 

If it isn't point blank, no mask, no travel, call the police - then these types won't comply.

 

Even then they'll behave like children - wear it to board then take it off or slip it down below their chin - "what? I'm still wearing it?".

 

Then attempt to justify, trump-like, "it's my right not to wear a mask!".

 

Or religious folk, "it's against my religious teachings..."

 

Or then will come how this inevitably disadvantages some demographic...

 

Don't see how it'll ever be enforceable - can't see them putting a cop on every bus/train/plane. 

 

 

 

 


Oblivian
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  #2548885 24-Aug-2020 16:29
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grimwulf:

 

Righto. 

 

Masks are mandatory.

 

Without meaningful enforcement or penalties, people will simply not comply - the same idiots that went to the beach at the weekend are the same ones that will be cramming themselves on board buses and trains and planes and refusing to wear masks.

 

If it isn't point blank, no mask, no travel, call the police - then these types won't comply.

 

Even then they'll behave like children - wear it to board then take it off or slip it down below their chin - "what? I'm still wearing it?".

 

 

*On public transportation.

 

And in a week.. so that same legal follow up and any potential incursions they can use as part of it can be worked out.

 

And it's going to be a requirement of entry. So the company will be refusing to move if one tries it on.


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