Nissan LEAF - General

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#1611855 15-Aug-2016 11:46

Thanks. I know I haven't been anywhere close to my guess of 5,8 seconds :D Must have confused it with the Tesla Model S 70D (which does 0-100 in 5,2 seconds).

Interesting how the first models of the Leaf was a little bit quicker than the newer models :D

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Linuxluver

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#1612209 15-Aug-2016 21:22

wellygary:

jonathan18:

The dealer said the current state of the Yen are Leafs (Leaves?!) making them more expensive to bring in at the moment, but I reckon I'd rather have a UK-sourced one

The Whole Brexit-thingee has probably made it more economic to buy and ship a second Hand leaf from the UK than Japan,

I'm doing exactly that. I'm expecting a 2016 LEAF "Tekna" with a 30kw battery pack and a 6.6kw AC charger (for 32amp charging) to arrive from the UK about the end of September.

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#1612212 15-Aug-2016 21:27

jonathan18:

If I won Lotto I'd certainly buy one tomorrow; back in realityland, I'd certainly be keen in the few years...

The older 2011 LEAFs are now selling for about $11,000, but they typically have a battery that is now down to about 75% of the original 120km (Gen 1) range. That's OK as long as you don't go more than 80-90km on a charge and you have access to a fast charger to get you going again quickly when / if you need it. (Average daily car use in NZ is 28km).

There will soon be at least one fast charger in Palmy....in the Square, I think. Charge.net.nz and PowerCo are working on it.

Carl Barlev (bluecars.co.nz) offers a service to upgrade 'tired' LEAF batteries. I think he starts at $1500 and can replace weak modules (there are 96 of them) with newer ones to give an old battery a refresh. It's cheaper than a new car once you own a LEAF...and adds years to its life and kms to its range.

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#1612213 15-Aug-2016 21:37

Aredwood:

This thread is a good justification for going nuts with a mains cable upgrade. Current cable is 60M of 16mm2 direct buried copper. Supposedly good for 40A according to Gencalc. But I can't go much over 20A without volt drop getting excessive. Due to the almost 50Year old underground street mains.

Would probably go for 95mm2 Al cables because overkill. And less need to replace internal wiring to make it compliant with volt drop rules.

Now if @vector could please replace the street mains and install Natural Gas while they are at it. Especially as I can't get 3 phase, my side of the street only has single phase.

I can charge at 16amps with single phase. That typically means I can charge from 50% to 100% in about 4 hours. I;ve only ever "emptied" it once (below 4%) and that took just over 7 hours to charge up. Or drive to a fast charger and get to 80% in 20 mins (or 30 mins if REALLY low) and then take it home and top it up. I do this just to save time charging......if I;ve driven around all morning, say, and want to drive around all afternoon too. Eat lunch at Mcds in Greenlane and use one of the new 50KW Vector fast chargers there.

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#1612217 15-Aug-2016 21:39

There seem to be some pretty serious assumptions in many posts in this thread that there's zero waiting time for a public charger. While that's probably the case now, presumably it won't be that way forever. How much would it change the equations if half the time there was a 45-60 minute delay before you could start charging?

Cheers N

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#1612220 15-Aug-2016 21:42

jarledb:

BTW: Does any of the Leafs that people here own have one of these solar panels? The rental has one..

My new LEAF will have one. I believe it trickle-charges the 12v battery whereas LEAFs that don't have the solar panel can only charge the 12v battery from the main battery (or the mains). So reduces the number of things sucking power from the main battery. I don't know how this might translate into range improvement.

(If I understand it correctly, a LEAF has the main traction battery (24kw or 30kw) for moving the car.....and a 12v 'standard' battery that helps with other stuff (lights, radio, etc....). But in the end the main battery backfills for the 12v.....)

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#1612223 15-Aug-2016 21:56

Adamww:

jarledb:

its pretty zippy and I think it does 0-100 in 5,8 seconds, which is not bad.

I though that sounds fast but then looked it up, you are a little off in that guess...

I think he must have had a bit of jetlag and hotwired 3 battery packs together? Maybe time moves slower in the northern hemisphere :)

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#1612293 16-Aug-2016 07:26

Linuxluver:
Carl Barlev (bluecars.co.nz) offers a service to upgrade 'tired' LEAF batteries. I think he starts at $1500 and can replace weak modules (there are 96 of them) with newer ones to give an old battery a refresh. It's cheaper than a new car once you own a LEAF...and adds years to its life and kms to its range.

I find it interesting (and encouraging) that individual cells can be replaced. Does that mean, if you are willing to accept slightly degraded performance, that you could spread the cost of replacement over an extended period? With both EVs and hybrids the large hit to replace the whole battery has always been a concern. Akin to the cost of overhauling an internal combustion engine, which just doesn't happen these days unless the vehicle is something special.

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#1612320 16-Aug-2016 08:57

Prius, can also replace individual cells and connections between cells. Most of the cost is labour for removal, then testing and diagnosis of individual cells. It can be a fairly expensive process. There are diy videos on YouTube.

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#1612382 16-Aug-2016 11:22

Dingbatt:
Linuxluver:

Carl Barlev (bluecars.co.nz) offers a service to upgrade 'tired' LEAF batteries. I think he starts at $1500 and can replace weak modules (there are 96 of them) with newer ones to give an old battery a refresh. It's cheaper than a new car once you own a LEAF...and adds years to its life and kms to its range.

I find it interesting (and encouraging) that individual cells can be replaced. Does that mean, if you are willing to accept slightly degraded performance, that you could spread the cost of replacement over an extended period? With both EVs and hybrids the large hit to replace the whole battery has always been a concern. Akin to the cost of overhauling an internal combustion engine, which just doesn't happen these days unless the vehicle is something special.

Just to clarify FYI: - in the example above those donors are two second hand packs from wrecks and not the "new" cells. Nothing wrong with using second hand cells as long as you can test those. There are currently NO new Leaf modules in New Zealand to choose from...

As for hybrids - replacing the traction battery is not a big hit at all - for that price as above you can have the whole rebuild pack in Prius...

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#1612394 16-Aug-2016 11:52

gzt: Prius, can also replace individual cells and connections between cells. Most of the cost is labour for removal, then testing and diagnosis of individual cells. It can be a fairly expensive process. There are diy videos on YouTube.

Any process coud be expensive if it is non-efficient.

I've invented the process of simultaneous testing traction battery packs - Prius, Lexus Hybrid, Honda Hybrid, Estima Hybrid, Camry Hybrid or almost any other hybrid or EV. That is of course where pack can be dismatled.

I can load test the whole pack in Prius or Lexus/Camry - all modules simultaneously capturing data on the individual module level and later charge the whole pack (in Toyota Hybrids) at once. That means - initial testing could take few minutes only.

Demonstration (educational) videos are on my youtube channel here:

https://youtu.be/lIEATg5xlik

https://youtu.be/BNzGoH2wVUE

https://youtu.be/Vwxvo3bPSjo

https://youtu.be/ejMPDOu04Rg

Difference between Toyota Hybrid and Leaf battery repair is huge in the amount of labour involved and required tools.

i.e. If Prius needs battery swap - it can be done by one man anywhere [e.g. on the sandy beach] in about 20 minutes (up to one hour) .

If your Leaf needs battery repair/swap - you need specially equipped garage or at least flat concrete floor, two men and tools to lift the car and pull that 240 kg pack out. Hence the price of that individual module replacement in Leaf is not going to be cheap. The labour is equal to one day minimum up to two days (depends what is involved).

Also there is no currently Battery Reprogramming Card for Leaf in New Zealand and you need to swap the BMS as well for that reason - extra labour....

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#1613456 17-Aug-2016 21:15

Talkiet:

There seem to be some pretty serious assumptions in many posts in this thread that there's zero waiting time for a public charger. While that's probably the case now, presumably it won't be that way forever. How much would it change the equations if half the time there was a 45-60 minute delay before you could start charging?

Cheers N

Most EV owners would charge at home. Charging away from home would occur on intercity trips and on days when the driver of the EV is driving atypically long distances in their local area. This doesn't happen often for most people as the range of a Nissan Leaf Generation 2 is about 135km-150km in the city (depending on topography, driving style and ambient temperature).

It's nothing like petrol stations where ALL cars must go to refill. With EVs, a substantional number will only very rarely have to use a public charger (free or paid).

That said. I'd had to wait two times in 10 weeks.....and never more than 20 mins. Once at Kaiwaka on the way to an EV event in Whangarei and once at Silverdale around 4pm.....(which seems to be "peak" time for LEAF owners needing a top-up).

I've also been using the fast chargers 300m from my house to save time charging up. I don't need to do this at all.....but I have never had to wait at that location to date (nor caused anyone else to wait).

There is also an ettiquette around using chargers. You should checkin on Plugshare (app) or at least leave your mobile number on the dash if you're going to walk away from the car. You may be just "opportunity" charging....and will happily get out of the way of someone who needsacharge or they can't go far. This seems to happen more at places like Sylvia Park where the chargers aren't particularly fast......or there are more cars that don't charge very quickly (3.3kw LEAFs and Mitsi Outlander PHEVs).

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#1613461 17-Aug-2016 21:22

RUKI:

If your Leaf needs battery repair/swap - you need specially equipped garage or at least flat concrete floor, two men and tools to lift the car and pull that 240 kg pack out. Hence the price of that individual module replacement in Leaf is not going to be cheap. The labour is equal to one day minimum up to two days (depends what is involved).

Also there is no currently Battery Reprogramming Card for Leaf in New Zealand and you need to swap the BMS as well for that reason - extra labour....

True. Carl Barlev posted the other day on Facebook and if I recall correctly he said he could refresh an entire battery pack (only replacing bad modules) for about $15,000.....and that there wouldn't be much benefit in it for a Gen1 LEAF as all the modules would be almost the same age as those being replaced....andage is the critical factor apparently.

Simplest answer is buy a new car because the Gen 2 LEAF has a much better battery that - so far - is degrading much more slowly than the Gen 1. There are Gen 2 LEAFs that still have 12 bars (of 12) battery after 160,000km.

I'll be interested to see how well the new 2016 LEAF (optional) 30kw (210km) battery packs age. They use newer battery tech than the 24kw battery packs.

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#1613483 17-Aug-2016 22:14

Aredwood:

This thread is a good justification for going nuts with a mains cable upgrade. Current cable is 60M of 16mm2 direct buried copper. Supposedly good for 40A according to Gencalc. But I can't go much over 20A without volt drop getting excessive. Due to the almost 50Year old underground street mains.

Would probably go for 95mm2 Al cables because overkill. And less need to replace internal wiring to make it compliant with volt drop rules.

Now if @vector could please replace the street mains and install Natural Gas while they are at it. Especially as I can't get 3 phase, my side of the street only has single phase.

Whats your main breaker sized at?

20A would be terribly limiting (without having most of the house on gas, which is not really ideal given you don't have piped NZ extracted natural gas available).

I think I am getting to the limit of a our 63A breaker (hot water on its own 16A main breaker, Assume pole fuse is 80A). I have no gas here, but don't have an electric car either.

I think I could add a 16A car charger, But if I went 32A, I would need to make sure it doesn't get used while cooking.

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#1613516 18-Aug-2016 07:16

Linuxluver:

Most EV owners would charge at home. Charging away from home would occur on intercity trips and on days when the driver of the EV is driving atypically long distances in their local area. This doesn't happen often for most people as the range of a Nissan Leaf Generation 2 is about 135km-150km in the city (depending on topography, driving style and ambient temperature).

The the slow demise of white picket fences and quarter acre sections I think you are underestimating the number of people who don't have a garage and are unable to park their vehicles within reach of a power point. I have an off-street park at my place, but it is at least 25 metres away from my flat.

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