Nissan LEAF - General

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1402 posts

Uber Geek

#3194574 13-Feb-2024 11:31

@GV27 - you are right. In a sense. free Vector charging means nothing for people outside Auckland. I know few people near Greenlane who are highly impacted. One is old pensioner and one is Uber driver who was free charging. Others were car dealers getting free charge on their way from compliance.

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HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3194577 13-Feb-2024 11:35

RUKI: ....
3) This week discovery of how to proof 100% that your Leaf ODO was wound back.

Do you have a link to info that relates to this please?

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#3194655 13-Feb-2024 13:05

RUKI: @GV27 - you are right. In a sense. free Vector charging means nothing for people outside Auckland. I know few people near Greenlane who are highly impacted. One is old pensioner and one is Uber driver who was free charging. Others were car dealers getting free charge on their way from compliance.

Which is precisely why those chargers needed to go. Businesses who can claim costs I have no sympathy for.

I am more partial to a pensioner but then again they also qualify for non-means tested energy allowances which others do not.

If not having access to a free half an hour charge on a 50kw unit changes the economics of owning an EV for you that drastically then you shouldn't have bought one.

nic.wise

333 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3194677 13-Feb-2024 14:11

GV27:

If not having access to a free half an hour charge on a 50kw unit changes the economics of owning an EV for you that drastically then you shouldn't have bought one.

Yeah, I've only used them once (tried a lot tho) - no one observes the 30 min rule.

No complaints about them being on ChargeNet. But now I want more - the CBD has next to no chargers... (he says as a few frequent Mevo user)

Nic Wise - fastchicken.co.nz

Canuckabroad

177 posts

Master Geek

#3194698 13-Feb-2024 14:57

I agree that losing Vector free charging shouldn't be an issue for anyone today - perhaps some bought in the past with an expectation that they would forever be able to fast charge for free, but anybody who buys today would be nuts to have that be a significant factor in their purchase decision. Having the ability to fast charge if important is key, but availability of charging for free - no. Everyone should assume they need to pay for the ability to fuel your vehicle unless you have a special perk through work or just use Daddy's credit card. The guy who uses his Leaf for Uber driving is literally being paid for using his car and definitely shouldn't be expecting Vector to be subsidising his business (although he's no doubt saved himself thousands of dollars before now).

As to whether people are going to assume that Leafs have faked odometer readings which will lower their value - difficult to say. I think people buy more based on battery health than odometer readings.

RUCs were always going to happen. Perhaps the government jumped the gun without having a system ready to handle all those transactions for all vehicles and there will be a disparity between what EVs pay and what efficient ICE vehicles do while they drag their heels building a new system for all vehicles - but that's just the politicking of this government because they believe ute drivers are their support base rather than EV drivers.

RUKI

1402 posts

Uber Geek

#3194782 13-Feb-2024 17:08

@harmlesssolutions re:#3 there is no link. It is a know-how, which I just discovered and added to the list of paid service.

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Scott3

3963 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3194878 14-Feb-2024 00:40

RUKI: The resale value of Leafs is now going to plummet for 3 major reasons:
1) Introduction of RUC from 1 April 2024
2) End of Free Vector Charging from 19 Feb 2024
3) This week discovery of how to proof 100% that your Leaf ODO was wound back.

#1 will have an impact for sure. A Leaf was previously the car of choice for the commuter looking for minimum running costs. With RUC, a Prius / Aqua / Fielder hybrid is not the best bet.

I don't think the ending of free vector charging is material. On an older leaf like mine, it would take 25min or so (plus waiting, often long waiting), for $2 of power. Most peoples time is worth more than that. Also the move to paid has been signaled for a long time.

On #3, the likes of Leafhacker has been around a long time, and the leaf is hardly the only vehicle that can have the ODO tampered with. I doubt this will make much of an impact. Another comment mentioned the leaf buyers are generally shopping by State of health, not KM.

On the Positive side, the demise of the $3k rebate on fresh imports will make already registered cars more attractive on the market.

Should note the market conditions in the care industry have shifted from a shortage to surplus in the last year. Toyota dropped their price on some hilux trims, We are starting to see more marketing etc. This especially impacts EV's. I would expect the impact of this to flow through to the used car market.

In general the used EV market is getting getting a bit more diverse. For a budget of $30k you now have the choose of a Kona, leaf or MG ZS EV.

I think the decision by multiple charge networks to only include 1x CHaDeMO port in their new many cord charge stations is going to hurt the value of the 40kWH and 62kWh leaf. Traveling to a charger with only a single port that works for your car is way riskier than a multiport.

Should note that one can now buy a 40kWh leaf for $17k.

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RUKI

1402 posts

Uber Geek

#3195909 15-Feb-2024 15:50

#4 to my list: no one yet came with affordable aftermarket batteries, despite some have put quite a lot of time & money into R&D & marketing. At least 3 business entities tried, despite I told them all in person at the start (years ago) they won't succeed. Dependency on batteries from wrecks is unsustainable.
#3 - I said at the start that Fleep the Fleet stats was garbage. At a time there were no proof how huge that pile of c$&@p is. Now we know. It could easily be a 600% discrepancy.
The point is: I was right about battery supply and FTF 6 years ago. It just about time for some to realise it.

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paulchinnz

Circumspice
793 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3195956 15-Feb-2024 16:58

#3 - I said at the start that Fleep the Fleet stats was garbage. At a time there were no proof how huge that pile of c$&@p is. Now we know. It could easily be a 600% discrepancy.

Is that discrepancy regarding odometer, SOH, age of battery, all of the above or something else? Is there a known method for fiddling with the SOH?

Cybnate

71 posts

Master Geek

#3195965 15-Feb-2024 17:13

RUKI: #4 to my list: no one yet came with affordable aftermarket batteries, despite some have put quite a lot of time & money into R&D & marketing. At least 3 business entities tried, despite I told them all in person at the start (years ago) they won't succeed. Dependency on batteries from wrecks is unsustainable.

Should note that one can now buy a 40kWh leaf for $17k.

With new batteries becoming cheaper by the day looking at the prices of (mainly) Chinese imports and second hand, it should be possible to create a competitive battery pack replacement for the Leaf given the numbers out there. Nothing fancy, just replacing for around $10k for 30kWh pack or say $13k for a 40kWh pack. Just not getting what makes it so expensive (shipping, hourly rates?).

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3195974 15-Feb-2024 17:36

Cybnate:

Should note that one can now buy a 40kWh leaf for $17k.

With new batteries becoming cheaper by the day looking at the prices of (mainly) Chinese imports and second hand, it should be possible to create a competitive battery pack replacement for the Leaf given the numbers out there. Nothing fancy, just replacing for around $10k for 30kWh pack or say $13k for a 40kWh pack. Just not getting what makes it so expensive (shipping, hourly rates?).

Determining battery price is far from straightforward at present. There is a considerable disparity between their value as a portion of the price of a new EV compared to the same capacity in the form of a static storage battery such as a Powerwall or BYD box. This price disparity also becomes apparent when a replacement battery is required like in the case of accident repair where the price point of vehicle write off is quickly reached if battery damage has occurred.

The situation where a Leaf with mediocre SoH has effectively the same capacity as a Powerwall but can be purchased for a fraction of the price of the home battery, an opportunity that isn't lost on those with the DIY skills to repurpose old Leafs to serve as solar storage which also denies those semi-depleted being available to battery upgrading services such as EVs Enhanced, or the fledgling recycling industry. The advent of V2G/V2H functionality which Leaf owners are poised to gain from will further highlight the factors I've just mentioned.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

ezbee

2405 posts

Uber Geek

#3195977 15-Feb-2024 17:45

I expect disassembly and reassembly of welded cells is a bit labor intensive also hitting refirb?
Besides getting past proprietary connectors and electronic systems.
You then have to have enough good cells and to be able to very reliably isolate 'all' bad ones.
I'm sure if the pack starts to drop of quickly 1 year later you will have customers beating the door down.

Theoretically Nissan had its own joint venture in Japan to refurbish Leaf batteries for Japan.
Though picture of the building looks a bit small if its doing lots of them.
Maybe just moving the sideways to solar power storage.
https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/STORIES/RELEASES/4r/|

If there is a good second hand market in other countries maybe domestic need to refurbish in Japan is low anyway.

I suppose in long term more important question will be how good the market is to export stuffed batteries
to wherever they are deconstructed and processed.
So we don't get the tire mountain, plastic mountain problem of uneconomic to export scrap.

RUKI

1402 posts

Uber Geek

#3196036 15-Feb-2024 22:29

@paulchinnz re: SOH (AKA Remainng Usable Capacity/Design Capacity %). It could be, as well as QC & NC numbers.
At this stage the only practical methods to estimate SOH I can think of:
- method #1. Indirect. Charge to full - drive till 5% SOC (to be able to get to base) on a flat roads without aircon. Check the distance travelled. You won't get the capacity number, but the desired estimated travel on full charge instead.
- method #2 - load test of the entire pack or just 1 weakest module from the pack, directly measuring remainng capacity. Obviously not for everyone as you need to take the pack off and if testing 1 module - dismantle it. The tools to test 1 module are available in NZ (e.g. JayCar) for about $100.

joemate

58 posts

Master Geek

ID Verified

#3196429 16-Feb-2024 16:19

In December we decided to get a Leaf, a 2018 model G trim.

Didn't rush to use LeafSpy, knowing that I have a dongle laying around somewhere, but yesterday I thought I'd give it a go and read out the battery status. Unfortunately my dongle is not compatible with leafspy, and the info on the internet is kind of confusing regarding model and type.

I am planning to use it with an Android phone, and from what I've found I don't need a WiFi compatible dongle. Some are saying the KW902 other LElink BLE version.

Any advice what and where to get one?

Cheers

boland

545 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3196524 16-Feb-2024 18:41

@joemate I initially bought one on Aliexpress, but that only worked with our ICE.

I ended up buying this one, which works like a charm with my Android phone. It's Bluetooth, indeed you don't need WiFi. Perhaps WiFi would make it easier to build automations with it, i.e. read it while you're not in the car, but I believe the car must be on before it works.

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