Scott3:

 

nzkiwiman:

 

I quite like the look of that e-208; but why are all these small electric cars $60k; that is a lot of money (even with the rebate). 

 

 

Its a $38k petrol car with a $22k powertrain upgrade.

 

But running on fuel that's a quarter the price of petrol.

frankv:

 

Scott3:

 

Its a $38k petrol car with a $22k powertrain upgrade.

 

 

But running on fuel that's a quarter the price of petrol.

 

The running costs vary wildly depending on the cost of power, and the comparison vehicle.

My power is just shy of 18c/kWh, a leaf uses ballpark 20kWh/100km. Works out to $3.6/100km.

A petrol car burning 7.3l/100km on $2/L petrol would work out roughly 4x this running cost.

A yaris hybrid burning 3.3L/100km on $2 petrol would work out to $6.6/100km, or roughly double.

To get 7x you would need either cheap night rate power (quite plausible, but for us the car is a minor power user, so it didn't make sense to go that way), or a fairly thirsty comparison vehicle. 

frankv:

 

Scott3:

 

Its a $38k petrol car with a $22k powertrain upgrade.

 

 

But running on fuel that's a quarter the price of petrol.

 

Yes, but there are a few issues with this;

• First owner will often plan to only own the car for 2 - 5 years, so will only consider running costs over that time, Typically depreciation is the biggest factor. Of course after their ownership the car will likely continue running until it is 20 years old or so, but this whole life cost often doesn't get considered by the first buyer.
• People are notoriously poor at considering running costs in a purchase decision anyway.
• Uncertainty around the re-introduction of RUC's means assuming ongoing low running costs is foolhardy. Combine the $3.6/100km of charging my leaf with the RUC rate of $7.6/100km and you get $11.2/100km. Nearly double that of the yaris hybrid above. Without a long term commitment on this from the government, long term decisions can't be made based on ongoing cost savings.

Half the price of petrol when the inevitable RUC is added back.

tdgeek:

 

Half the price of petrol when the inevitable RUC is added back.

 

i don't see it happening under this red green "loose coalition" - probably likely if blue

Batman:

 

tdgeek:

 

Half the price of petrol when the inevitable RUC is added back.

 

 

i don't see it happening under this red green "loose coalition" - probably likely if blue

 

Maybe. Right now its a non event as EVs are so few. Interesting to see what happens when tripling the fuel cost does occur. 

shouldn't petrol cost come down if there is less demand

Batman:

 

shouldn't petrol cost come down if there is less demand

 

Im sure it will. RUC arrives. less compelling to go EV, BUT if the EV prices move towards ICE prices, a no brainer. People buy what is worthwhile, not due to climate change. Ive got MANY friends are are buying hybrids. Not expensive, have the toys, 3L/100km, SOLD. I feel they will dominate the short to medium term. 

Batman:

 

shouldn't petrol cost come down if there is less demand

 

Sorry, by tripling the fuel cost, I mean EV fuel. Currently 30c per litre equivalent, add 70c RUC, you have $1 per litre equivalent. Just over half or under half most petrol prices depending on the day.

tdgeek:

 

Batman:

 

shouldn't petrol cost come down if there is less demand

 

 

Im sure it will. RUC arrives. less compelling to go EV, BUT if the EV prices move towards ICE prices, a no brainer. People buy what is worthwhile, not due to climate change. Ive got MANY friends are are buying hybrids. Not expensive, have the toys, 3L/100km, SOLD. I feel they will dominate the short to medium term. 

 

• It will provide a way to charge all vehicles on a size or fuel used basis including hybrids which otherwise are difficult to tax effectively.
• Fuel that is used in non-road transport related ways (e.g. power tools, boats, farm equipment) won't be subsidising roading as the RUC component should be removed.
• Incentivising EVs and hybrids by way of a reduced RUC rate is possible.
• A GPS based system like the eRoad would solve the RUC dodging that is currently so prevalent for light diesel owners.
• Such a system is easily automated by way of existing technology.
• Monitoring of all vehicles presents a convenient method to address traffic congestion in cities in real time by way of coordinating traffic lights and the like.
• Temporary traffic counters as used by local bodies and LTSA would become redundant.

HarmLessSolutions:

 

I suspect that the most likely scenario in regards to RUCs is that a distance travelled charge by way of vehicle tracking will be introduced for all road going vehicles. This will address a number of inequities in the current system:

 

• It will provide a way to charge all vehicles on a size or fuel used basis including hybrids which otherwise are difficult to tax effectively.
• Fuel that is used in non-road transport related ways (e.g. power tools, boats, farm equipment) won't be subsidising roading as the RUC component should be removed.
• Incentivising EVs and hybrids by way of a reduced RUC rate is possible.
• A GPS based system like the eRoad would solve the RUC dodging that is currently so prevalent for light diesel owners.
• Such a system is easily automated by way of existing technology.
• Monitoring of all vehicles presents a convenient method to address traffic congestion in cities in real time by way of coordinating traffic lights and the like.
• Temporary traffic counters as used by local bodies and LTSA would become redundant.

A dictator's wet dream.  Now we can see everywhere you go.. 

old3eyes:

 

HarmLessSolutions:

 

I suspect that the most likely scenario in regards to RUCs is that a distance travelled charge by way of vehicle tracking will be introduced for all road going vehicles. This will address a number of inequities in the current system:

 

• It will provide a way to charge all vehicles on a size or fuel used basis including hybrids which otherwise are difficult to tax effectively.
• Fuel that is used in non-road transport related ways (e.g. power tools, boats, farm equipment) won't be subsidising roading as the RUC component should be removed.
• Incentivising EVs and hybrids by way of a reduced RUC rate is possible.
• A GPS based system like the eRoad would solve the RUC dodging that is currently so prevalent for light diesel owners.
• Such a system is easily automated by way of existing technology.
• Monitoring of all vehicles presents a convenient method to address traffic congestion in cities in real time by way of coordinating traffic lights and the like.
• Temporary traffic counters as used by local bodies and LTSA would become redundant.

 

A dictator's wet dream.  Now we can see everywhere you go.. 

 

HarmLessSolutions:

A GPS based system like the eRoad would solve the RUC dodging that is currently so prevalent for light diesel owners.

Batman:

 

DjShadow:

 

EV Discounts are now a thing - Government offers $8625 discount on EVs, reviving policy killed by NZ First | Stuff.co.nz

 

It'll help with the Nissan Leaf I feel but won't make a Tesla feel much cheaper

 

 

somebody make a list of all the current EV prices now.

 

in a few months they will go up by $8625

 

and already the drums are beating with excuses now https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/06/clean-car-package-concerns-ev-subsidy-could-be-cancelled-out-as-overseas-suppliers-raise-prices.html