EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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Ultimate Geek
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#2881122 8-Mar-2022 11:59

RobDickinson:

Is it that different to a camry? I've put my mountain bike in there many times, suitcases no problem etc...

Honestly in 2.5 years I've not found it a problem once.

And again theres a polestar 2 if thats an issue with a hatch

Yes, I think the camry has a larger opening. Good stuff if it works for you, I was just pointing it out as something to watch for. A lot of the model 3 reviews make note of it.

Dingbatt

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#2881141 8-Mar-2022 12:35

The Toyota NZ website doesn’t seem to display prices (TDP) for the Camry anymore but from memory a new one was about $52K (the top ZR model). So vs $61.5K for a Model 3 (oops forgot the price rise, so $64K) at the moment. The Camry now runs on 95 so add that extra 30c to your $3/l calculations. Bearing in mind the Camry Hybrid is probably the most fuel efficient large (by NZ standards) family sedan, other ICEd rivals will be worse.

Anybody considering a sedan has to be aware of the storage limitations. Because the Polestar 2 is a “fastback” it’s opening is larger to get bulky items into the vehicle but as soon as you close the hatch the volume is smaller than a Model 3 (I think).

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RobDickinson

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#2881146 8-Mar-2022 12:41

Yeah its not a bigger boot bit the hatch could help.

Do we has the xc40 recharge yet?

Linuxluver

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#2881300 8-Mar-2022 16:39

Anyone calculating the cost / benefit of EVs versus fossil fuel vehicles is missing a big piece of the picture if they don't put a value on zero emissions of combustion particulates and greenhouse gases.

The best way to enforce that value is an emissions tax, but people get upset when we try to implement a regime that actually costs the harm done. Polluting for free has given people the idea there's no cost to polluting.

There is. So include one in any analysis.

Never mind the costs associated with wars for oil ....

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WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2881327 8-Mar-2022 18:07

https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/project/contentplatform/data/media/my23/xc40-electric-light/volvo-cars-LCA-report-xc40.pdf

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2881328 8-Mar-2022 18:09

The above video, if it works, is a comparison from Volvo of building an ICE XC40 vs the XC40 Recharge.

Interesting viewing.

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#2881365 8-Mar-2022 19:42

Linuxluver: Anyone calculating the cost / benefit of EVs versus fossil fuel vehicles is missing a big piece of the picture if they don't put a value on zero emissions of combustion particulates and greenhouse gases.

The best way to enforce that value is an emissions tax, but people get upset when we try to implement a regime that actually costs the harm done. Polluting for free has given people the idea there's no cost to polluting.

There is. So include one in any analysis.

Never mind the costs associated with wars for oil ....

While this is true, that's arguably what the ETS component of petrol taxes is meant to do. And most people are concerned with the pure actual cost of running a car because they have to pay with it in actual dollars, and money they spend on an EV is money they can't spend on something else.

shk292

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#2881386 8-Mar-2022 21:02

HarmLessSolutions:

A couple of points that stick out for me in your scenario is that most EV owners charge at home using off peak rates so public charger rates don't realistically reflect 'fuel' cost for them.

Also the introduction of RUCs for EVs will happen at some point but I think it's a fair assumption that in doing so a rejig of the whole RUC system will be implemented to at least cast the net over hybrids too. The loophole that otherwise exists is those hybrid (especially plug-in) owners that can do all or most of their commute using the vehicle's electric capacity only can effectively travel RUC free. I can't see this being allowed to continue.

Fair points, but even if you remove all RUC and electricity costs, you're $4k per year worse off with the EV

I came to this conclusion a year or two ago when weighing up whether to get an EV. Even doing 20Mm per year, which I did before WFH became the norm, I just couldn't make the figures stack up. I think EVs are cool technology and I'll probably buy one within 2-3 years, but you really have to want to spend a significant chuck of cash on tackling climate change to make buying one sensible.

The analysis I've never seen is whether that $4k per year you're spending on an EV is the best way to help the climate. Would it be better to spend it on insulating houses better or subsidising someone else to switch from a thirsty old car to a hybrid?

Obraik

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#2881388 8-Mar-2022 21:06

shk292:

Fair points, but even if you remove all RUC and electricity costs, you're $4k per year worse off with the EV

I came to this conclusion a year or two ago when weighing up whether to get an EV. Even doing 20Mm per year, which I did before WFH became the norm, I just couldn't make the figures stack up. I think EVs are cool technology and I'll probably buy one within 2-3 years, but you really have to want to spend a significant chuck of cash on tackling climate change to make buying one sensible.

The analysis I've never seen is whether that $4k per year you're spending on an EV is the best way to help the climate. Would it be better to spend it on insulating houses better or subsidising someone else to switch from a thirsty old car to a hybrid?

It really depends on the EV you buy. That comparison done back a page is using a somewhat expensive EV. You could instead go with a MG ZS EV which after the rebate is $41k. You could also go with a Tesla Model 3 which is $64k after the rebate. Both bring your "time to win" down vs the $79k example that was given.

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HarmLessSolutions

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#2881396 8-Mar-2022 21:57

shk292:

HarmLessSolutions:

A couple of points that stick out for me in your scenario is that most EV owners charge at home using off peak rates so public charger rates don't realistically reflect 'fuel' cost for them.

Also the introduction of RUCs for EVs will happen at some point but I think it's a fair assumption that in doing so a rejig of the whole RUC system will be implemented to at least cast the net over hybrids too. The loophole that otherwise exists is those hybrid (especially plug-in) owners that can do all or most of their commute using the vehicle's electric capacity only can effectively travel RUC free. I can't see this being allowed to continue.

Fair points, but even if you remove all RUC and electricity costs, you're $4k per year worse off with the EV

I came to this conclusion a year or two ago when weighing up whether to get an EV. Even doing 20Mm per year, which I did before WFH became the norm, I just couldn't make the figures stack up. I think EVs are cool technology and I'll probably buy one within 2-3 years, but you really have to want to spend a significant chuck of cash on tackling climate change to make buying one sensible.

The analysis I've never seen is whether that $4k per year you're spending on an EV is the best way to help the climate. Would it be better to spend it on insulating houses better or subsidising someone else to switch from a thirsty old car to a hybrid?

As an earlier post mentioned every EV user has their own criteria for justifying ownership. In our case we have recently installed 5kW of PV which we are currently attempting to maximise the economic viability of. Our Gen 1 Leaf has a low battery state of health thereby limiting our choices for scheduling charging from our PV. We are currently considering the purchase of a Polestar2 which will set us back financially but as we have already invested in the PV the price of upgrading our EV will be offset to some degree by the ability to charge it from our solar generation. Somewhere down the line the ability to run a V2G system also appeals, which is obviously a feature that no ICE vehicle can compete with.

Another point that came to mind regarding the hybrid costing in your earlier post is that the depreciation rate for a hybrid really needs to factor in the future redundancy of the hybrid model. For now hybrids are viable because they effectively extend the range of the vehicle by using an ICE. As the technology of batteries improve beyond the range that the average owner is comfortable with planning their travels on the idea of hybrid vehicles will become redundant technology and their resale value will reflect this.

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RobDickinson

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#2883428 9-Mar-2022 08:41

Hybrids and PHEVs had their time, but from a tech pov they are well and truly done.

Mazda is juts launching their first PHEV in the UJK, it has a 39mile range for £43k when you can get an ioniq 5 for similar money. Nuts.

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#2883452 9-Mar-2022 08:55

RobDickinson:

Hybrids and PHEVs had their time, but from a tech pov they are well and truly done.

I'm weighing up options now but will probably get a 2nd-hand Outlander PHEV. We'll be able to do most of our day-to-day driving on pure-EV mode, but we'll also be able to drive across country with just a single stop. We need a car with a big boot just to fit our dog in and there seems to only be PHEVs available in that size. We could possibly squeeze into an MG ZS EV but I'm not convinced it has enough range - I'd want an EV to be able to comfortably drive 300km fully loaded (i.e. with roof box and bike rack on the roof). A Telsa 3 long range battery in a SUV shape would be perfect.

RobDickinson

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#2883456 9-Mar-2022 09:00

2nd hand they are still a good deal, but new? Once we get cars like the ionoq 5 and model Y whats he point of that mazda?

amanzi

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#2883461 9-Mar-2022 09:04

RobDickinson:

2nd hand they are still a good deal, but new? Once we get cars like the ionoq 5 and model Y whats he point of that mazda?

I guess there are still people (I'm guilty of this) with range-anxiety, although my friends who own EVs all say it's really nothing to worry about. Being able to do day-to-day driving in EV mode but have the backup of a full tank of petrol seems like a win-win - you massively reduce your fuel consumption, but don't lose the convenience of it.

RobDickinson

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#2883463 9-Mar-2022 09:07

They certainly are a good toe in the water, thats what we did, nothing affordable could do what we wanted pure ev a the time

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