EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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217 posts

Master Geek

Subscriber

#2914601 16-May-2022 15:05

You seem to be missing the phrase “low emissions vehicles” which does include small engine, high efficiency petrol vehicles which can be imported from Japan at reasonable prices. They already attract a small rebate under the current scheme. Also older EVs and hybrids like the Leaf and Prius are coming on the market at reasonable prices.
These are not solutions for everyone but every little helps.

HarmLessSolutions

972 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#2914621 16-May-2022 15:17

Scotdownunder:

You seem to be missing the phrase “low emissions vehicles” which does include small engine, high efficiency petrol vehicles which can be imported from Japan at reasonable prices. They already attract a small rebate under the current scheme. Also older EVs and hybrids like the Leaf and Prius are coming on the market at reasonable prices.
These are not solutions for everyone but every little helps.

The price of EVs that have reduced battery capacity is also pretty affordable for someone who requires a 'round town' runabout or shopping cart. Our 2012 Leaf is now at ~65% SOH so has an effective range of about 70km. Borderline for us to commute from our rural home but still plenty of life for an urban owner and from what I've been told by a local EV dealer the trade in value is about $5,000 so well within budget range buyers' capability.

In our case it will be retained as a second vehicle to a Polestar2 that we expect to take delivery of in July with plans to then change out the Leaf's battery within the next year or so. We see this as a better option than selling it off for the low residual value as mechanically the car is still in good shape. But if we did sell it off it would present an opportunity for the new owner to do the same upgrade and so provide a staged purchase of a reasonably priced EV.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2914623 16-May-2022 15:23

$5K is a lot to pay for a car that can only go 70km. You'd basically need a second car to make that work as you state - so you're not realistically going to be cashing in a clunker unless you've already got two cars now.

Hopefully battery swaps pick up as the EVs Enhanced and other options come onto the market and this becomes a more affordable upgrade path.

wellygary

8315 posts

Uber Geek

#2914638 16-May-2022 15:35

Scotdownunder:

You seem to be missing the phrase “low emissions vehicles” which does include small engine, high efficiency petrol vehicles which can be imported from Japan at reasonable prices.

Err nope. the target is Zero-emission so Hybrids don't count

"Transport target 2
Increase zero-emissions vehicles to 30 per cent of the light fleet by 2035. "

tripper1000

1617 posts

Uber Geek

#2914654 16-May-2022 15:44

Environmentalism is a luxury that poor people can not afford. Temporary subsidies are at best a temporary solution.

Few would disagree that the cost of housing is the single biggest obstacle to discretionary spending such as EV uptake (housing has gone up 300% while other costs and income remains comparatively in step). Ironically the environmental movement has caused the restriction of land for housing causing the steep rise in land (housing) prices, causing us to have less money for environmentally conscious spending.

It is a classic case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2914665 16-May-2022 16:01

tripper1000:

Environmentalism is a luxury that poor people can not afford. Temporary subsidies are at best a temporary solution.

Few would disagree that the cost of housing is the single biggest obstacle to discretionary spending such as EV uptake (housing has gone up 300% while other costs and income remains comparatively in step). Ironically the environmental movement has caused the restriction of land for housing causing the steep rise in land (housing) prices, causing us to have less money for environmentally conscious spending.

It is a classic case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

As is successive governments who import more people than our current infrastructure can support but then leave it to councils to try and organise public transport to match.

I know people like to focus on 'what if we had fewer people' but I think a better question is 'what if we'd built to actually accommodate them as we added them?'

One is a much more useful exercise for our future than the other.

kingdragonfly

11190 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2914676 16-May-2022 16:37

The news has gone international. Many papers picking up Reuters' story.

The Guardian (UK): Help to buy EVs in ‘landmark’ New Zealand net zero climate plan

New Zealand will help some people to buy electric vehicles, end its reliance on fossil fuels, lower agricultural emissions, and reduce waste going to landfill, the government has promised in the most significant announcement on climate change action in the country’s history.
...

Reuters: New Zealand targets EVs, industry with new $2.8 billion climate response fund

The New Zealand government said on Monday it would set up a NZ$4.5 billion ($2.83 billion) climate response fund, spending at least NZ$2.9 billion on cutting pollution over the next four years as it targets net zero emissions by 2050.

The plan puts money towards a broad range of activities including making electric vehicles more accessible, reducing food going into landfill, improving public transport and truck emissions and helping industry to decarbonise.
...

Tradepub

Free professional, reference and technical white papers (affiliate link).

wellygary

8315 posts

Uber Geek

#2914677 16-May-2022 16:54

kingdragonfly: The news has gone international. Many papers picking up Reuters' story.

The Guardian (UK): Help to buy EVs in ‘landmark’ New Zealand net zero climate plan

New Zealand will help some people to buy electric vehicles, end its reliance on fossil fuels, lower agricultural emissions, and reduce waste going to landfill, the government has promised in the most significant announcement on climate change action in the country’s history.
...

Reuters: New Zealand targets EVs, industry with new $2.8 billion climate response fund

The New Zealand government said on Monday it would set up a NZ$4.5 billion ($2.83 billion) climate response fund, spending at least NZ$2.9 billion on cutting pollution over the next four years as it targets net zero emissions by 2050.

The plan puts money towards a broad range of activities including making electric vehicles more accessible, reducing food going into landfill, improving public transport and truck emissions and helping industry to decarbonise.
...

Both have taken the EV headlines hook line and sinker,

The "making electric vehicles more affordable" aka the cash for clunkers is a 2500 car trial for 2 year's at a cost of $15milion a year, ( the real money $240 +$290 million don't kick in until 2024/25 and 2025/26....

Its spending in the next two years is about the same as the higher wages for bus drivers scheme... which is also now apparently a climate change initiative ,,

Dingbatt

6756 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2914678 16-May-2022 17:10

Gee, a news organisation falling for the hook with no research. What a surprise!

Im sure the people that qualify will look forward to parking the vehicle at their affordable KiwiBuild home (one of the hundred thousand promised). Oops no parking available because parking spots are no longer required.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

SaltyNZ

8225 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#2914707 16-May-2022 19:31

HarmLessSolutions:

Generation from domestic (and utility scale) PV offsets grid generation which in NZ is primarily hydro so in effect it is helping store lake capacity that would otherwise be required during that time of consumption, so essentially it is being 'stored'. The other benefit in distributed PV generation is that the electricity that isn't consumed at source is likely consumed within the immediate area of the domestic PV (the local neighbourhood) thereby reducing load on grid transmission capacity.

And I tell you what, since I got the app working to monitor the inverter it's been all about going around turning stuff off to get that sweet sweet PV > House situation*... I haven't really done anything that I could not have done before, but it's much more visceral when you can see a little glowing pulse.

*Except when it's time to charge the car, in which case it makes sense to suck the PV directly rather than sell it and buy it back later.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

SaltyNZ

8225 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#2914708 16-May-2022 19:32

Dingbatt:

Gee, a news organisation falling for the hook with no research. What a surprise!

Im sure the people that qualify will look forward to parking the vehicle at their affordable KiwiBuild home (one of the hundred thousand promised). Oops no parking available because parking spots are no longer required.

Since they'd have to relinquish an old bomb to get the new one, at least they have a new one.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29761 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2914713 16-May-2022 20:02

GV27:

$5K is a lot to pay for a car that can only go 70km. You'd basically need a second car to make that work as you state - so you're not realistically going to be cashing in a clunker unless you've already got two cars now.

Hopefully battery swaps pick up as the EVs Enhanced and other options come onto the market and this becomes a more affordable upgrade path.

for me i sold my ebike and covered the cost of EV.

so for me it's like a posh E-ebike.

in 6 months i've already saved more in petrol $ than i have paid for the Nissan leaf.

the 3rd party insurance and rego is the cost of a playstation game each.

HarmLessSolutions

972 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#2914714 16-May-2022 20:04

SaltyNZ:

HarmLessSolutions:

Generation from domestic (and utility scale) PV offsets grid generation which in NZ is primarily hydro so in effect it is helping store lake capacity that would otherwise be required during that time of consumption, so essentially it is being 'stored'. The other benefit in distributed PV generation is that the electricity that isn't consumed at source is likely consumed within the immediate area of the domestic PV (the local neighbourhood) thereby reducing load on grid transmission capacity.

And I tell you what, since I got the app working to monitor the inverter it's been all about going around turning stuff off to get that sweet sweet PV > House situation*... I haven't really done anything that I could not have done before, but it's much more visceral when you can see a little glowing pulse.

*Except when it's time to charge the car, in which case it makes sense to suck the PV directly rather than sell it and buy it back later.

Sounds familiar except we've included a Paladin power diverter in our PV system which takes care of much of the usage allocation within our house. We take a shoofty at the Paladin reading before flicking on major draws including EV charging and replan as necessary. The reduction of our monthly power bill from ~$230/month to around $100 would seem to prove its worth, and that usage includes charging a Leaf, which is relegated to sunny days or offpeak hours if the sun's not playing the game.

The addition of another EV in the coming weeks will see us revising our consumption habits but PV direct into the EVs will still be priority.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

HarmLessSolutions

972 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#2914716 16-May-2022 20:11

GV27:

$5K is a lot to pay for a car that can only go 70km. You'd basically need a second car to make that work as you state - so you're not realistically going to be cashing in a clunker unless you've already got two cars now.

Hopefully battery swaps pick up as the EVs Enhanced and other options come onto the market and this becomes a more affordable upgrade path.

70km is more than enough to get around the neighbourhood or pick up the shopping so long as you're not planning on traversing Auckland in your daily routine. I would suggest that many households in lower socioeconomic areas don't lack a few junkers and if an EV purchase results in one of those going to scrap then the govt's scheme will achieve its aim.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

elpenguino

3421 posts

Uber Geek

#2914718 16-May-2022 20:18

tripper1000:

Environmentalism is a luxury that poor people can not afford. Temporary subsidies are at best a temporary solution.

So what do you suggest to avert impending disaster?

100% tax on luxury cars with the proceeds used to donate EVs to the poor?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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