Speed limits too high on most roads, NZTA estimates

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Speed limits too high on most roads, NZTA estimates

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#2253122 6-Jun-2019 14:36

frankv:
tdgeek:

You cant drive slower as you will hold up traffic and get a ticket.

Only if you drive inconsiderately enough to actually hold up other traffic.

Only if a cop is slowed down. I have never seen any of the people driving at 70ks sometimes 60ks in the open Road get a ticket for slowing me down.

Bung

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#2253142 6-Jun-2019 15:00

The offence isn't slowing you down, it's not pulling over to let you pass "as soon as is reasonably practicable".

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#2253153 6-Jun-2019 15:29

Bung: The offence isn't slowing you down, it's not pulling over to let you pass "as soon as is reasonably practicable".

That does not happen either. You can bet that 400m before passing Lane they will be driving at 110-120ks.

geoffwnz

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#2253655 7-Jun-2019 11:14

Benoire:

1101:

What a load of codswallop
How is it, that race cars can do 2x,3x the speed limit on our very worst roads. Are the roads really so unsafe, it seems not.
Yes we use our very worst unsealed roads for racing. Stop saying its the roads.

What racing is done on our road network that isn't done by a top class race driver in specially conditioned vehicles? I can only think of WRC that meets that criteria? The very reason we have so many advisory curve speeds on the rural network is because the geometry doesn't meet actual real life design criteria for the normal person.

Err, 80% of all ClubSport level racing actually. The other 20% would be split between permanent tracks and places like carparks, grass paddocks or gravel pits.
That's not even including rally events which other than Targa, tend to use gravel roads (oh the horror) mostly.
Rally Whangarei, I'm down near the back of the field in the "just here to have fun" category and still managing speeds up to 160kmh on gravel and 180kmh on tarmac with some stages averaging over 80kmh for the entire stage.
Most club level sprint events are done on various rural roads (closed for the event) in cars across the whole range from very old to very new, very standard to very modified. And drivers from 12 years to 81 being the oldest I know of with a huge range of experience and ability level.

But if you think I'm a "top class race driver", then thanks, I'll take the compliment. :-)

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#2253659 7-Jun-2019 11:21

Bung:
1101:

What a load of codswallop
How is it, that race cars can do 2x,3x the speed limit on our very worst roads. Are the roads really so unsafe, it seems not.
Yes we use our very worst unsealed roads for racing. Stop saying its the roads.

Its the driver.

It is the driver and you'll have one of them heading towards you. One of the last times I recall racing cars doing 2 way traffic (inadvertently) Possum Bourne was killed.

They weren't racing, it was reconnaissance and the road was open (as it generally is for recce) to two way traffic. One driver failed to keep left.

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mudguard

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#2253736 7-Jun-2019 13:11

geoffwnz:

Rally Whangarei, I'm down near the back of the field in the "just here to have fun" category and still managing speeds up to 160kmh on gravel and 180kmh on tarmac with some stages averaging over 80kmh for the entire stage.

Well two cars travelling at 80kmh into each other would have the same impact as dead stop at 160kmh..

geoffwnz:

Most club level sprint events are done on various rural roads (closed for the event) in cars across the whole range from very old to very new, very standard to very modified. And drivers from 12 years to 81 being the oldest I know of with a huge range of experience and ability level.

How much repeat motorsport is done without a cage? I would think anyone slightly serious would be racing in a cage iand a helmet.

DonH

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#2253862 7-Jun-2019 14:22

mudguard:

Well two cars travelling at 80kmh into each other would have the same impact as dead stop at 160kmh..

Think it through, lad.

For each car:

Speed before collision: 80 km/h

Speed after collision: 0 km/h

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geoffwnz

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#2253874 7-Jun-2019 14:48

mudguard:

geoffwnz:

Most club level sprint events are done on various rural roads (closed for the event) in cars across the whole range from very old to very new, very standard to very modified. And drivers from 12 years to 81 being the oldest I know of with a huge range of experience and ability level.

How much repeat motorsport is done without a cage? I would think anyone slightly serious would be racing in a cage iand a helmet.

Quite a few club level events don't require a cage. That comes down to the venue mainly. Shelly Bay, Wellington requires a cage due to the options for getting it wrong are either a solid bank on your left, of a sharp drop on to rocks or the blue wobbly thing on your right. Or for extra style points, bounce off one into the other.

Helmet, overalls etc are a must though.

So if you only plan on doing events that don't require a cage, then it's entirely probable to not have one. I prefer having the cage myself for several reasons. One, it opens up more events. Two, I can take passengers/co-driver. Three safety, though I'm aiming not to have to use it.

However, in line with the topic, a cage doesn't change the performance level of the car or driver, just adds weight (80kg+ of steel tubing) and safety to the car. Still racing on the same roads mentioned earlier. A cage just means that if you end up with the wheels pointing upwards, you're less likely to crush the car into a small ball of metal. On that basis, of very little relevance to the topic.

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#2253961 7-Jun-2019 16:28

DonH:
mudguard:

Well two cars travelling at 80kmh into each other would have the same impact as dead stop at 160kmh..

Think it through, lad.

For each car:

Speed before collision: 80 km/h

Speed after collision: 0 km/h

There's a neat MythBusters episode that proves the theory too :)

timbonz

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#2253972 7-Jun-2019 17:05

Road toll was trending down until 5 or so years ago.
Better roads, better cars (including NCAP, ABS breaking, Seat belts, Air bags).

Why the increase in last 5 or so years? SMART PHONES? Methamphetamine?

Need a database recording such things as age of driver, years driving, make model and year of vehicle, types of road (motorway, state highways, local, urban), single vehicle, using mobile, alcohol, drugs, crossed centre line, end of passing lane, intersection, using mobile, inattention...

The database should be available to public so we can see if speed is the main factor (as claimed by NZTA) or otherwise!

Should also look at serious injury accidents as well as fatal accidents as the impact of injury to families and ACC costs are also very important.

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#2253996 7-Jun-2019 18:17

timbonz: Road toll was trending down until 5 or so years ago.
Better roads, better cars (including NCAP, ABS breaking, Seat belts, Air bags).
Why the increase in last 5 or so years? SMART PHONES? Methamphetamine? Need a database recording such things as age of driver, years driving, make model and year of vehicle, types of road (motorway, state highways, local, urban), single vehicle, using mobile, alcohol, drugs, crossed centre line, end of passing lane, intersection, using mobile, inattention... The database should be available to public so we can see if speed is the main factor (as claimed by NZTA) or otherwise! Should also look at serious injury accidents as well as fatal accidents as the impact of injury to families and ACC costs are also very important.

There was a spreadsheet with all that, or more likely, some of that. No one seems to take it seriously.

It would not be hard, in fact it would be easy to collate the cause of our road toll. If we had all the relevant data from every fatal accident down to every bruised ankle.

Then, its very easy to implement controls to reduce that. We will never reduce a booboo, mistake, sorry event. But we can introduce controls. What sort of controls?

Again, easy. Run a red light $80. Next time $500. Next time $5000. Cash and in 7 days otherwise bye bye car. Imagine not being eligible to own a car????

But what we have is people who have $000's of fines, they laugh. People like me and many here, drive to survive these idiots.

allstarnz

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#2254145 8-Jun-2019 07:53

Azzura:

Roads in NZ are pretty bad vs Canada and the US. If you took the 100kmh roads in NZ and put them in Canada.....most of them wouldn't be 100kmh. A lot of the NZ State highways would definitely not be 100kmh in Canada. Not even sure they would be considered highways. They're more like the secondary roads in New Brunswick at 70,80, maybe 90kmh.

I live on Vancouver Island, and I find in general the highway speeds are set way too low. Even mostly straight double carriageways with concrete median in the middle are often only 80km/h or 90km/h. As a consequence, nobody really seems to follow the limits, and there's no fixed speed cameras here. The only sensible limit is once you get up towards the middle of the island, the max is 110km/h. Maybe it's just that people here can't do windy roads properly.

wsnz

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#2254183 8-Jun-2019 10:07

allstarnz:

Azzura:

Roads in NZ are pretty bad vs Canada and the US. If you took the 100kmh roads in NZ and put them in Canada.....most of them wouldn't be 100kmh. A lot of the NZ State highways would definitely not be 100kmh in Canada. Not even sure they would be considered highways. They're more like the secondary roads in New Brunswick at 70,80, maybe 90kmh.

I live on Vancouver Island, and I find in general the highway speeds are set way too low. Even mostly straight double carriageways with concrete median in the middle are often only 80km/h or 90km/h. As a consequence, nobody really seems to follow the limits, and there's no fixed speed cameras here. The only sensible limit is once you get up towards the middle of the island, the max is 110km/h. Maybe it's just that people here can't do windy roads properly.

We used to travel over to Vancouver Island frequently. I remember that stretch up by Parksville that was 120Km/h and we were routinely being passed as though we were standing still. That section of road was in very good condition IMHO. I assume that's been lowered now too. Heck, even back on the mainland on the trans-Canada highway heading towards Calgary where the limit was 90Kph, with smooth flat roads with bridges for the animals to cross, we were passed by buses, trucks, etc. all speeding until a group of highway patrol cars appeared around the corner sitting there with a radar gun.

Generally I've found drivers equally as bad everywhere. There's no standout country or city. Perhaps it's just human nature.

Torque

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#2254722 9-Jun-2019 10:40

allstarnz:

I live on Vancouver Island, and I find in general the highway speeds are set way too low. Even mostly straight double carriageways with concrete median in the middle are often only 80km/h or 90km/h. As a consequence, nobody really seems to follow the limits, and there's no fixed speed cameras here. The only sensible limit is once you get up towards the middle of the island, the max is 110km/h. Maybe it's just that people here can't do windy roads properly.

I spent a few months last year in Vancouver Island, had an awesome time travelling all over the place! I remember the double carriageway on the way to Nainamo one could easily get *well* above the speed limit. Likewise the double carraigeway on the way to the ferry terminals prior to Nainamo (from memory) where you can easily not see another vehicle for a bit.

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#2254955 9-Jun-2019 20:39

I wonder what parameters were used and who chose them in the Mega Maps app to arrive at the figures being quoted?

Like most of these tools the outcomes can be massaged by tweaking the parameters. I'm very suspicious there is a political motive in the establishment of the "safe speed limits" Mega Maps has come up with.

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