EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#3169719 8-Dec-2023 12:31

richms: and you have to take it back to the dealer for a software update because they are stuck 20 years in the past with their technology.

I believe GWM Ora has over the air update and upgrade available for some systems. Just not this one.

richms

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#3169727 8-Dec-2023 12:55

SaltyNZ:

The flip-side is that the manufacturer can push out a bad update, "upgrade" you by removing or changing features you like and you rely on them to respect your privacy. That's why I hedge my bets with one Tesla and one MG.

Yeah tesla did that with the reversing camera, one update and then you couldn't open other things when in reverse because it was on the idiot camera screen. Great when you're in a park in reverse waiting for a break in traffic and want to change songs or something.

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jonathan18

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#3169730 8-Dec-2023 12:57

SaltyNZ:
The flip-side is that the manufacturer can push out a bad update, "upgrade" you by removing or changing features you like and you rely on them to respect your privacy. That's why I hedge my bets with one Tesla and one MG.

Totally. A good example is the adaptive cruise control stupidity where a recent update means Teslas slow down to a crawl at various places they shouldn't. Also, having the OTA update doesn't mean Tesla is that quick to fix these kinds of problems - it can take months.

There are a number of software manageable issues that I'd love to be tided up with my wife's MG4 - I'm not holding my breath for this to happen quickly! (I've heard they will be rolling out OTA updates at some point, but again...)

Shadowfoot

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#3169737 8-Dec-2023 13:09

robjg63:

One very good thing with cars that are always connected is the ability to push out updates quickly.

The Kia EV6 has the capability for OTA updates of non-critical systems. Connectivity is not enabled in AU or NZ 🤨 which also prevents us from easily getting data from the car.

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KiwiME

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#3170084 9-Dec-2023 16:33

Shadowfoot:... Connectivity is not enabled ... which also prevents us from easily getting data from the car.

Can't you just use OBD? On my Kona EV I can get nearly everything I could ever want.

KiwiME

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#3170095 9-Dec-2023 16:46

tukapa1:Thanks - I hadn't considered the 64kWh Kona, although reading up about the battery fire recall issue I would want to make sure the recall battery replacement had been done.

The battery is the last thing to worry about with the early Konas. If it doesn't have a new battery already you'll will get one for free. I'd be surprised if any are outstanding in NZ.

The gear reducer is another story - two buyers of off-lease early models have that fail and although Hyundai are stepping up, it's only on goodwill.

lchiu7

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#3170113 9-Dec-2023 17:58

Here is an interesting perspective on falling prices of EV's in the US. Seems to be some parallels we can draw here. I guess as an EV owner, my main concern, such as it is, is what happens after about 8 years when the warranty runs out or the battery warranty also expires.

https://youtu.be/X_TlXpy-37o?si=HXKxE8VLTsBt5nFx

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#3170352 10-Dec-2023 14:26

Hopefully by that point in time, more third-party places will be set up to deal with battery issues, and can actually fix the individual cells/components for relatively low cost compared to a whole pack/module swap which is costly.

I don't have any issues with a battery pack out of warranty, it's no different than an internal combustion engine letting go after the warranty period has lapsed. Some of those cost the same as a new battery pack in an EV, but a lot of people seem to ignore that fact.

ANglEAUT

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#3170390 10-Dec-2023 18:33

lchiu7: ... what happens after about 8 years ...

Mehrts: Hopefully by that point in time, more third-party places will be set up to deal with battery issues, ...

Unfortunately, I am already on year 5 of 8. 😟

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lchiu7

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#3170400 10-Dec-2023 19:06

Mehrts:

Hopefully by that point in time, more third-party places will be set up to deal with battery issues, and can actually fix the individual cells/components for relatively low cost compared to a whole pack/module swap which is costly.

I don't have any issues with a battery pack out of warranty, it's no different than an internal combustion engine letting go after the warranty period has lapsed. Some of those cost the same as a new battery pack in an EV, but a lot of people seem to ignore that fact.

Except how many people driving ICE's expect to be replacing an engine after 100K or 8 years driving?

For an ICE there are so many options to bring the engine back - for the EV, only a battery pack replacement. One hopes in 8 years time the cost of batteries has come down to a level where it's reasonable and third party options exist. For the Tesla Model Y I had read the battery pack is integrated into the chassis so it's no readily replaceable. I guess I have 7 more years to worry about that (BYD Atto3).

robjg63

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#3170431 10-Dec-2023 21:02

lchiu7:
Mehrts:

Hopefully by that point in time, more third-party places will be set up to deal with battery issues, and can actually fix the individual cells/components for relatively low cost compared to a whole pack/module swap which is costly.

I don't have any issues with a battery pack out of warranty, it's no different than an internal combustion engine letting go after the warranty period has lapsed. Some of those cost the same as a new battery pack in an EV, but a lot of people seem to ignore that fact.

Except how many people driving ICE's expect to be replacing an engine after 100K or 8 years driving?

For an ICE there are so many options to bring the engine back - for the EV, only a battery pack replacement. One hopes in 8 years time the cost of batteries has come down to a level where it's reasonable and third party options exist. For the Tesla Model Y I had read the battery pack is integrated into the chassis so it's no readily replaceable. I guess I have 7 more years to worry about that (BYD Atto3).

Online, it says the book time for model Y battery replacement is 4 to 5 hours.
The US models have a different battery pack which could take an extra hour apparently.

But as to how much a battery pack would cost....

One hopes there may eventually be places that could refurbish battery packs.

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Technofreak

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#3170445 10-Dec-2023 21:48

I think replacement battery packs are the least of your issues. The cost of repair after an accident and even the ability to repair is what I'd be more worried about, if the experiences in the UK are anything to go by.

Hertz and Sixt are dropping EV''s from their line up due to operating costs. Cost of repair and high depreciation are two factors.

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everettpsycho

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#3170446 10-Dec-2023 21:51

lchiu7:
Except how many people driving ICE's expect to be replacing an engine after 100K or 8 years driving?

For an ICE there are so many options to bring the engine back - for the EV, only a battery pack replacement. One hopes in 8 years time the cost of batteries has come down to a level where it's reasonable and third party options exist. For the Tesla Model Y I had read the battery pack is integrated into the chassis so it's no readily replaceable. I guess I have 7 more years to worry about that (BYD Atto3).

I also wonder how the eu mandates will impact this stuff, pretty sure their easily replaceable phone batteries law also applies to EVs so by 2027 any EV sold in the EU must have use replaceable batteries to create a circular economy. Similar to how apple has now adopted USB C globally because of similar EU legislation surely it will mean most manufacturers won't build the battery in anymore and we will hopefully see EVs become more repairable.

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#3170502 11-Dec-2023 08:30

lchiu7:

Except how many people driving ICE's expect to be replacing an engine after 100K or 8 years driving?

Even my old 30kWh Leaf (the Worst Leaf Ever) went further than that, and I drove it into the ground. In the Tesla, after 57,000km the calculated full-charge range has dropped from 431km to 418km, which is within the noise. Modern EVs with proper battery cooling aren't exactly your cell-phone losing half its capacity in a year. Of course I consciously opted for the LFP version which helps as well, but sooner or later Toyota actually will release their solid-state battery and it all changes again.

In the meantime, I don't have to do oil changes, I don't have a head gasket to leak or a complicated transmission to fry, and I save a lot of money on energy costs. I'd go broke trying to run two ICE cars.

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johno1234

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#3170504 11-Dec-2023 08:37

Technofreak: I think replacement battery packs are the least of your issues. The cost of repair after an accident and even the ability to repair is what I'd be more worried about, if the experiences in the UK are anything to go by.

Hertz and Sixt are dropping EV''s from their line up due to operating costs. Cost of repair and high depreciation are two factors.

A major reason for dropping EVs is resale value. The aggressive price cutting over recent years is seeing SixT and Hertz suffering much higher write-downs than expected. They can sell their low mileage late year Toyotas at minimal depreciation but brand new Teslas are cheaper than what they bought theirs for 2 years ago.

EV routine maintenance is cheap. Battery replacement is not what was feared (plenty of old Tesla taxis with half a million miles and 10 years old are still going just fine) but crash reparability is a problem. Surely that could be improved if the manufacturers can get together and come up with a modular battery standard.

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