EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#3197134 18-Feb-2024 16:16

SaltyNZ:

without rolling it out for petrol cars as well - and we will make sure to keep the $12 processing fee because we love taxes on taxes.

Its in the cost of petrol. Cant exactly do that for electricity

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#3197135 18-Feb-2024 16:19

jarledb:

82.4% of all new cars sold in Norway in 2023 were EVs.

How can NZ get to the same level, and what has Norway done to make it happen?

CNBC just aired a news story that covers what Norway is doing, and what I think NZ should be copying.

If you watch this it explains some of how this has happened but its down to the government and its investments mostly. Not going to happen here because our government doesnt hold many assets and is afraid to do public private partnerships on things.

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#3197136 18-Feb-2024 16:19

Jase2985:

SaltyNZ:

without rolling it out for petrol cars as well - and we will make sure to keep the $12 processing fee because we love taxes on taxes.

Its in the cost of petrol. Cant exactly do that for electricity

It's not equally in the cost of petrol. As has been endlessly rehashed in this very thread, more economical petrol cars pay less road user tax than less economical cars, even though they may travel the same distance and take up the same amount of space on the road.

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#3197137 18-Feb-2024 16:21

SaltyNZ:

It's not equally in the cost of petrol. As has been endlessly rehashed in this very thread, more economical petrol cars pay less road user tax than less economical cars, even though they may travel the same distance and take up the same amount of space on the road.

its hard to apply it equally and equitably, though.

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#3197140 18-Feb-2024 16:32

Jase2985:

SaltyNZ:

It's not equally in the cost of petrol. As has been endlessly rehashed in this very thread, more economical petrol cars pay less road user tax than less economical cars, even though they may travel the same distance and take up the same amount of space on the road.

its hard to apply it equally and equitably, though.

Equally is easy. Equally is that all vehicles pay RUCs directly based on weight class only.

I agree that equitably is less so. But the current scheme is inequitable already so that's not really an argument in favour of keeping it as is. As - again - has been hashed out on this thread already many times, the people who pay the most road user tax included in petrol are often those who can afford it the least because they don't have spare cash to buy modern, efficient vehicles.

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#3197143 18-Feb-2024 16:55

jarledb:

82.4% of all new cars sold in Norway in 2023 were EVs.

How can NZ get to the same level, and what has Norway done to make it happen?

CNBC just aired a news story that covers what Norway is doing, and what I think NZ should be copying.

Apparently it's costing the Norwegian government around NOK 19 billion per year to incentivise EV uptake over ICE (https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/transport-and-communications/veg/faktaartikler-vei-og-ts/norway-is-electric/id2677481/). Sounds like it helps to have some money...

Apologies, should've watched that video before responding, as this massive cost to the government is covered there. If only NZ had a robust oil and gas industry ;p

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#3197145 18-Feb-2024 17:03

paulchinnz:

jarledb:

82.4% of all new cars sold in Norway in 2023 were EVs.

How can NZ get to the same level, and what has Norway done to make it happen?

CNBC just aired a news story that covers what Norway is doing, and what I think NZ should be copying.

Apparently it's costing the Norwegian government around NOK 19 billion per year to incentivise EV uptake over ICE (https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/transport-and-communications/veg/faktaartikler-vei-og-ts/norway-is-electric/id2677481/). Sounds like it helps to have some money...

Apologies, should've watched that video before responding, as this massive cost to the government is covered there. If only NZ had a robust oil and gas industry ;p

So just under NZD3 billion then. Sounds doable. What is NZ's annual fossil fuel (petrol + diesel) import cost?

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#3197169 18-Feb-2024 18:17

Does that assume an 'either or' when instead a 'both and' scenario is more realistic?

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#3197174 18-Feb-2024 18:55

paulchinnz:
Apparently it's costing the Norwegian government around NOK 19 billion per year to incentivise EV uptake over ICE (https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/transport-and-communications/veg/faktaartikler-vei-og-ts/norway-is-electric/id2677481/). Sounds like it helps to have some money...

Apologies, should've watched that video before responding, as this massive cost to the government is covered there. If only NZ had a robust oil and gas industry ;p

You realise the cost is in missed taxes compared to ICE cars.

It is also not the only country with incentives to get people into EVs. Even the US is using a fair bit of money to incentivise EV uptake.

But here in NZ we are moving in the opposite direction.

My prediction is that we will see significantly less new EV on the road in NZ in 2024 compared to 2023.

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#3197177 18-Feb-2024 19:04

jarledb:
paulchinnz:

Apparently it's costing the Norwegian government around NOK 19 billion per year to incentivise EV uptake over ICE (https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/transport-and-communications/veg/faktaartikler-vei-og-ts/norway-is-electric/id2677481/). Sounds like it helps to have some money...

Apologies, should've watched that video before responding, as this massive cost to the government is covered there. If only NZ had a robust oil and gas industry ;p

You realise the cost is in missed taxes compared to ICE cars.

It is also not the only country with incentives to get people into EVs. Even the US is using a fair bit of money to incentivise EV uptake.

But here in NZ we are moving in the opposite direction.

My prediction is that we will see significantly less new EV on the road in NZ in 2024 compared to 2023.

The problem with the US is that if Trump is elected we will most likely see any EV incentives rolled back, the same as Luxon and co have done so far here regarding the CCD, oil & gas exploration ban roll back and the half arsed implementation of the RUC system for EVs and other vehicles. In both cases it's about who puts money in the coffers of those in control of those respective economies.

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#3197180 18-Feb-2024 19:24

SaltyNZ:

jarledb:

82.4% of all new cars sold in Norway in 2023 were EVs.

How can NZ get to the same level,

Well first, we'll remove the clean car incentive and the Auckland regional fuel tax. Then we will introduce Road User Charges for EVs without rolling it out for petrol cars as well - and we will make sure to keep the $12 processing fee because we love taxes on taxes.

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#3197183 18-Feb-2024 19:41

You realise the cost is in missed taxes compared to ICE cars.

It is also not the only country with incentives to get people into EVs. Even the US is using a fair bit of money to incentivise EV uptake.

But here in NZ we are moving in the opposite direction.

My prediction is that we will see significantly less new EV on the road in NZ in 2024 compared to 2023.

Thanks. So none of that cost is due to subsidies?

And yes I'm aware there are other countries with incentives. But Norway is often held up as the poster child of EV uptake. And it has been impressive - was nice walking around Oslo downtown admiring the lack of car noise and petrol fumes.

And I also agree NZ uptake of BEVs will stagnate this year, albeit the causes of that are manifold. But to put it into perspective, I don't need EV subsidies to help me care for the environment - I could have stayed in NZ and not gone to Norway.

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#3197263 18-Feb-2024 21:50

paulchinnz:

Thanks. So none of that cost is due to subsidies?

Depends how you define subsidies. The incentive for EVs in Norway for the buyer is that there are no taxes added to the cars. That used to be a tax break no matter how much they cost. Now the limit is 78,000 NZD and you pay 25% tax of every single cent over the $78,000 NZD.

ICE cars are heavily taxed in Norway. First you have an environment tax based on CO2 emissions, and then you have 25% value added tax on top of that.

That makes ICE cars in Norway the most expensive in the world, so comparatively the EVs are less expensive.

And yes I'm aware there are other countries with incentives. But Norway is often held up as the poster child of EV uptake. And it has been impressive - was nice walking around Oslo downtown admiring the lack of car noise and petrol fumes.

They have done other things that made EVs more desirable as well. Such as the use of bus lanes, free toll roads, free parking etc. Most of these have been cut back or removed all together as theres been more and more EVs on the road.

And I also agree NZ uptake of BEVs will stagnate this year, albeit the causes of that are manifold. But to put it into perspective, I don't need EV subsidies to help me care for the environment - I could have stayed in NZ and not gone to Norway.

I don't know what you need. But the general population need to be able to purchase and keep a BEV that is either saving them money or don't cost more than an equivalent ICE car. Until that happens there won't be any mass adoption of BEVs in NZ.

PS: Hope you are enjoying the crazy Norwegian winter this year. Or did I misinterpret your "not gone to Norway" comment?

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#3197268 18-Feb-2024 22:24

My bad @jarledb, what I meant by "not gone to Norway" was "not take a return flight to Norway". My understanding is that trip was about the equivalent of driving an ICE about 20,000 km. So the environmental benefits of my all EV home for 2023 were wiped out with a trip to Norway.

But yes the EV uptake in Norway is impressive. On 40 km 30 minute drive from Gardermoen to Oslo city centre I saw more model S cars than in a year in Christchurch. An example for the rest of the world, but maybe there're other ways of achieving the same savings in carbon emissions in NZ. Anyone for staycations and abandoning overseas travel? ;p

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#3198650 22-Feb-2024 10:29

VW has done some price cuts overnight, taking $20k off the ID4 and bringing it down to $60k - only $10k more than its ICE equivalent, the Tiguan

Volkswagen slashes its electric vehicle prices in NZ | Stuff

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