Any recommendations for a 1st car ?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Any recommendations for a 1st car ?

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WyleECoyoteNZ

1049 posts

Uber Geek

#3106415 20-Jul-2023 22:34

Not entirely sure it's relevant to this discussion.

However, a while ago, I read that the reason for the the auto v manual came down to emissions. A manual at most may have 6, or 7 forward gears, whereas as auto may have up to 9. If an engine is in 9th gear (auto) as opposed to 6th (manual) at the emissions test level chances are it's revving a lot lower in a auto than a manual.

Also, from a performance point of view, a DCT auto can change much quicker than the squidgy human bag of blob behind the wheel

Tinkerisk

4224 posts

Uber Geek

#3106435 20-Jul-2023 23:31

johno1234: ROTFLMAO! EASA regulations are many thousands of pages.

Yet another claim that you can’t back up with a cite. .

“Read the EASA regulations” indeed! That’s so funny.

Well, you can do something yourself, can't you? Show a little initiative. I know where it is. 😆

Start here: https://flight-examiner.com/revalidation/tourist-motorgliders-easa (it took 2 seconds)

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johno1234

2793 posts

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#3106453 21-Jul-2023 07:06

That’s not EASA it’s some third party flight examiner’s site for revalidation of a motor glider’s licence. It is not the EASA regulations for pilots of “big automatic aircraft”. You claimed these pilots were required to have glider proficiency to support their licences. Quote: “That's why, according to the EASA guidelines, the pilots of the big automatic aircraft now also have to prove that they have a regular class rating for motor gliders”

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Suggest you stop embarrassing yourself now.

Ge0rge

2052 posts

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#3106458 21-Jul-2023 07:40

Woah, steady on - there's probably no need to get nasty - some interpretation might be getting lost in translation. Before covid at least, I understand @Tinkerisk to have been a very senior pilot in their home country of Germany.

I think the point they are trying to make is not that it is required to have a "motor glider license" to fly "big automatic aircraft", but that the directive says you can't by default fly a small aircraft just because you are licensed for the big.

And to tenuously bring this slightly back on topic, the NZTA recognises a similar thing: if you sit your restricted license test in an automatic vehicle, then for the duration of your restricted period, you may only drive automatic vehicles - unless you have a supervisor with you. Sit it in a manual, and you may drive either. This restriction ends when you get your full license.

citation

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3106466 21-Jul-2023 08:11

Ge0rge: Woah, steady on - there's probably no need to get nasty - some interpretation might be getting lost in translation. Before covid at least, I understand @Tinkerisk to have been a very senior pilot in their home country of Germany.

I think the point they are trying to make is not that it is required to have a "motor glider license" to fly "big automatic aircraft", but that the directive says you can't by default fly a small aircraft just because you are licensed for the big.

And to tenuously bring this slightly back on topic, the NZTA recognises a similar thing: if you sit your restricted license test in an automatic vehicle, then for the duration of your restricted period, you may only drive automatic vehicles - unless you have a supervisor with you. Sit it in a manual, and you may drive either. This restriction ends when you get your full license.

citation

Nope. He was quite clear and that was his point. And the international pilot's language is English, by the way. If he was a senior pilot, particularly in Germany, then his English would be very good. It's required for ATC.

DataBitz

37 posts

Geek

#3106645 21-Jul-2023 13:44

In the same boat with two kids starting to drive soon, and also not allowed to drive my Tesla.
Was thinking of a manual, but decided the chances that the kids will have to drive a petrol and manual vehicle in the medium to long term is very low, and an EV will be much less maintenance and cost. Also they only need to be able to get around town/short distance.

At the moment the top contender is one of these Smart ForTwo's. The bonus is they can only take one passenger, and I know from personal experience kids driving with multiple passengers are far more likely to get into trouble or be distracted.

Smart Fortwo for sale | Trade Me Motors

scuwp

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#3106652 21-Jul-2023 14:00

DataBitz:

In the same boat with two kids starting to drive soon, and also not allowed to drive my Tesla.
Was thinking of a manual, but decided the chances that the kids will have to drive a petrol and manual vehicle in the medium to long term is very low, and an EV will be much less maintenance and cost. Also they only need to be able to get around town/short distance.

At the moment the top contender is one of these Smart ForTwo's. The bonus is they can only take one passenger, and I know from personal experience kids driving with multiple passengers are far more likely to get into trouble or be distracted.

Smart Fortwo for sale | Trade Me Motors

Good lord. 4 star safety rating and any teenager I know would be embarrassed to be seen in one and immediately become a social outcast. Safety alone would be a major concern for me. In my former days in the emergency responder field, these sorts of cars would be called a "coffin on wheels" for anything other than but toodling around town. I wouldn't let my kids on the highway in one of these.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

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maoriboy

1007 posts

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#3106657 21-Jul-2023 14:11

scuwp:

Good lord. 4 star safety rating and any teenager I know would be embarrassed to be seen in one and immediately become a social outcast. Safety alone would be a major concern for me. In my former days in the emergency responder field, these sorts of cars would be called a "coffin on wheels" for anything other than but toodling around town. I wouldn't let my kids on the highway in one of these.

Agreed! If you want to make your child a social outcast in a 4 star rated toy car, this is the way to do it. Hanging a "Social outcast" sign around their neck will achieve a similar result.

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3106665 21-Jul-2023 14:25

My parents purchased a mini for us to learn in back in the 1980's. Now when I see a mini from that era I'm aghast at how unsafe it was compared to today's basic cars. It had no collapsible steering wheel column. No energy absorbing structure, no ABS, no airbags. No retractable self tensioning seatbelts. May have had rear lap belts too. Coffin on wheels a perfect description.

DataBitz

37 posts

Geek

#3106668 21-Jul-2023 14:39

johno1234:

My parents purchased a mini for us to learn in back in the 1980's. Now when I see a mini from that era I'm aghast at how unsafe it was compared to today's basic cars. It had no collapsible steering wheel column. No energy absorbing structure, no ABS, no airbags. No retractable self tensioning seatbelts. May have had rear lap belts too. Coffin on wheels a perfect description.

Standards have changed quite a bit since then, compared to a modern car the ForTwo is actually safer than the same year Mini Cooper.

(63) Euro NCAP Crash Test of Smart fortwo 2014 - YouTube

(63) Mercedes S-CLASS vs SMART Fortwo FRONTAL Crash Test - YouTube

Jaxson

8041 posts

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#3106676 21-Jul-2023 15:02

It was amazing how poorly even fairly recent 2010ish cars performed in crashes.
Our previous Mazda MPV had two airbags, but failed crash tests as the dummy's head just rolled off the side of the airbag and smashed onto the car frame.

Also forgot to mention you as the registered owner will be liable for speed camera and parking tickets, and council meter staff love their power to ticket for out of warrant/reg expired situations when parking in town.

Tinkerisk

4224 posts

Uber Geek

#3108623 27-Jul-2023 01:58

johno1234:

Ge0rge: I think the point they are trying to make is not that it is required to have a "motor glider license" to fly "big automatic aircraft", but that the directive says you can't by default fly a small aircraft just because you are licensed for the big.

Nope. He was quite clear and that was his point. And the international pilot's language is English, by the way. If he was a senior pilot, particularly in Germany, then his English would be very good. It's required for ATC.

Well, whatever you believe (or not) - @Ge0rge said it all. ;-)

Mark

1653 posts

Uber Geek

#3109181 28-Jul-2023 13:56

Shoot .. I didn;t pop in for a few days and now have a huge amount of posts to read! Hopefully lots of recommendations :) Thanks!

shk292

2853 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#3109319 28-Jul-2023 15:37

Depending on your budget...

2 years ago we went through this with my son and ended up spending ~$10k on a 2015 Corolla Fielder wagon with 100k km. It's been rock solid since then - economical, safe, comfortable and big enough for a double inflatable mattress in the back in case he wants to sleep over after parties etc.

The other cars we were looking at were Imprezas which also seemed a good option, except for the rear space.

Doing it again, I'd probably go Fielder again

BlakJak

1275 posts

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#3110217 31-Jul-2023 20:03

SirHumphreyAppleby:

I wouldn't say that. On more than one occasion while driving in carparks, I've smashed the brake on an automatic trying to press the clutch.

I once had to drive DoC staff from the domestic terminal to the helipad. I made sure I warned them what might happen, since we had two endangered birds in the back. Luckily, I didn't stop suddenly, and they made it to their destination unharmed.

I just want to WT_? (seriously, even the acronym is classed as a bad word?) this. When you drive an Auto your left foot goes on the foot rest or is otherwise tucked up against the transmission tunnel to the left. The brake is next to the accellerator and used with an entirely different foot. I can't imagine ever seeing my left foot on or near the brake!

I learned in a series of Manuals in the late '90's (I learned in 1980's era Mitsi Lancer, Suzuki Alto, Toyota Corolla and Holden Barina (think Opel)... all manual transmissions... and also my Dads early 90's Corona (Auto).
Learning the mechanics of the clutch made me a better driver in the end. Also having experience in an Auto helped me understand the difference and how to manage a conventional Auto Transmission.
My personal vehicles for the last 16 years have been mostly auto (did have a wee Barina as a second car for a few years during that time) but i've been comfortably able to drive pool cars, rental cars and commercial vehicles... i've never regretted learning Manual and so would highly encourage it.

However - if Auto is what you have access to, it's entirely fine to learn in an Auto. I would encourage most drivers who want the skill and versatility, to find a way to learn in a manual anyway. And I agree that by the time you get your full license, you don't want an Auto-only endorsement.

Also? I agree that for _some_ drivers, automatic transmission make them very much 'point and click' and I do think that this engenders less general understanding of the vehicle which leads to worse drivers on the whole. Just an opinion. If you can get a manual _at some point_ i'd go for it. But it's not the end of the world if that's not accessible at the Learner/Restricted level.

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