Cyclists are morally superior in every way

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Cyclists are morally superior in every way

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#3211721 27-Mar-2024 23:03

Lias:

Not at all

Your argument that only cars and motorbikes contribute to road upkeep is just patently false. Registration does not pay for roads. Fuel taxes only pay for the roads that cyclists cannot use, because they're highways. You know what pays for the roads cyclists use? Rates. Because local councils and property developers build and local councils maintain them, not Waka Kotahi.

Lias:

If ACC risk pricing exists, then yes, I am 100% in favour of making skiing, sport, etc ridiculously expensive to cover the injury bill. Right now motorcyclists are the only group targeted and that's ragingly unfair. Everyone, or noone, equality for all.

As you note, motorbikes get reamed by ACC because of the risk and they have to pay that huge rego per bike they want to ride on the road.. but you don't have to register a vehicle or have a driver's license if you don't use it on the road. Cyclists should also be licensed and have to pay per bike if they want to use them on the road. You wanna mountain bike? Cool, go nuts, but transport the bike there and back with your car and only ride it offroad, or cough up.

Motorbikes get reamed because ACC is a compulsory first party motor vehicle accident insurer. Which means that the cost is directly proportional to the risk the individual takes by using that motor vehicle. The levies are contributed to the Motor Vehicle Account, which only covers motor vehicle accidents that occur on public roads. ACC also says that the motorcycle levy only funds 22% of the full cost of treatment for accidents involving motorcycles, the rest coming from other accounts. You might note the word "motor vehicle" coming up a lot, which is kind of important. Off the top of my head, bicycles are not motor vehicles.

The Earner's Levy on your salary or wages pays into the Earners Account which covers the cost of injuries during sports and recreational activities. Are you arguing that people who do sports should pay levies on their earnings? That's just plain ridiculous.

Side note, by your twisted logic you should be required to get a pedestrian's license and pay pedestrian registration to use footpaths, because pedestrians also use footpaths and roads, and worse yet they sometimes trip or get hit by cars or motorbikes so there needs to be levies on pedestrians to cover that risk!

tripp

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#3211741 28-Mar-2024 07:04

I don’t really have an issue with them as long as they follow the road rules. Some do a lot don’t. The number of times I have seen them run red lights, not using bike lanes when they are there then riding 3 a cross and slowing down traffic rather than using the bike lines.

Then they get mad when you follow the rules and the problem is totally created by the person on the bike.
I also think that they should have some kind of number plate once the rider is over 18 years old. A lot of the issue is that there is no way to ID them and that gives them free rein to be “difficult” when you point out that they are not following the road rules.

MikeB4

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#3211747 28-Mar-2024 07:43

tripp: I don’t really have an issue with them as long as they follow the road rules. Some do a lot don’t. The number of times I have seen them run red lights, not using bike lanes when they are there then riding 3 a cross and slowing down traffic rather than using the bike lines.

Then they get mad when you follow the rules and the problem is totally created by the person on the bike.
I also think that they should have some kind of number plate once the rider is over 18 years old. A lot of the issue is that there is no way to ID them and that gives them free rein to be “difficult” when you point out that they are not following the road rules.

I suspect that the percentage of cyclists that don't follow the rules parallels the percentage of motor vehicle drivers. The urge to invoke Wheatons Law is across all walks of society.

alasta

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#3211778 28-Mar-2024 08:46

MikeB4:

I suspect that the percentage of cyclists that don't follow the rules parallels the percentage of motor vehicle drivers. The urge to invoke Wheatons Law is across all walks of society.

It always amuses me to see motorists and cyclists fighting over who is the biggest a-hole. As a pedestrian I can assure you that they are just as bad as each other.

Rikkitic

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#3211781 28-Mar-2024 08:50

tripp: I don’t really have an issue with them as long as they follow the road rules. Some do a lot don’t. The number of times I have seen them run red lights, not using bike lanes when they are there then riding 3 a cross and slowing down traffic rather than using the bike lines.

Then they get mad when you follow the rules and the problem is totally created by the person on the bike.
I also think that they should have some kind of number plate once the rider is over 18 years old. A lot of the issue is that there is no way to ID them and that gives them free rein to be “difficult” when you point out that they are not following the road rules.

As I pointed out before, dickheads are just dickheads. This is not a special quality of cyclists and implying it is creates a false impression. Those who break the law and create problems for other traffic are dickheads, full stop. It has nothing to do with the fact that they happen to be on bicycles. If they were in cars, they would probably also be dickheads, and there are certainly plenty of those.

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MikeB4

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#3211786 28-Mar-2024 09:03

alasta:

It always amuses me to see motorists and cyclists fighting over who is the biggest a-hole. As a pedestrian I can assure you that they are just as bad as each other.

Some days it is truly terrifying braving the city on my wheelchair. I am sure there is organised missions against me by buses, trucks, taxis cyclists and their special forces the meat heads on motorised skateboards.

floydbloke

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#3211787 28-Mar-2024 09:04

MikeB4:

Throughout Aotearoa of all the cyclelanes and shared lanes have entire motor vehicle lanes been replaced?

Whitmore St in Wellington appears to have had a motor traffic lane converted to a cycle lane in each direction. Walking past there a couple of times this morning between 8 and 9 these were being used extensively by pedallers. Motorised traffic didn’t seem congested, although it is the last day before a long weekend so probably a little lighter than usual. Saw just the one cyclist not using the cycle lanes for some reason but in fairness he was on an e-bike going the same speed as the cars.

I find mutual courtesy; a smile, a wave a ‘no, you go first’ headlight flash or hand-gesture goes a long way to facilitating general traffic harmony and flow.

Did Eric Clapton really think she looked wonderful...or was it after the 15th outfit she tried on and he just wanted to get to the party and get a drink?

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alasta

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#3211790 28-Mar-2024 09:11

floydbloke:

Whitmore St in Wellington appears to have had a motor traffic lane converted to a cycle lane in each direction. Walking past there a couple of times this morning between 8 and 9 these were being used extensively by pedallers. Motorised traffic didn’t seem congested, although it is the last day before a long weekend so probably a little lighter than usual. Saw just the one cyclist not using the cycle lanes for some reason but in fairness he was on an e-bike going the same speed as the cars.

I work on Bowen Street. There are cycle lanes recently installed there, but most of the cyclists that I see are still using the footpath.

siyuan

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#3211794 28-Mar-2024 09:27

I'm a cyclist myself, but I do find some cyclists being rather selfish. They ride in a row instead of a single file, happily chit-chatting away and ignore all the cars being blocked behind.

networkn

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#3211796 28-Mar-2024 09:37

MikeB4:

I suspect that the percentage of cyclists that don't follow the rules parallels the percentage of motor vehicle drivers. The urge to invoke Wheatons Law is across all walks of society.

The thing that amazes me, is that the number of 2 wheel road going vehicles who don't follow the rules, or are behaving downright dangerously, doesn't seem to take into account how much worse off they will be than a car, truck, bus or van, involved in an identical incident regardless of who's fault it is.

Whilst it's a tragedy when someone is killed on the road, the people left behind, are the ones who live with it forever after.

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#3211802 28-Mar-2024 09:45

alasta:

I work on Bowen Street. There are cycle lanes recently installed there, but most of the cyclists that I see are still using the footpath.

Heh, yeah, I see that too :) Not there, but other places.

Kyanar

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#3211838 28-Mar-2024 11:20

alasta:

I work on Bowen Street. There are cycle lanes recently installed there, but most of the cyclists that I see are still using the footpath.

That's relatively common unfortunately. Cyclists often use the excuse that the cycle lane is "poorly maintained" and "full of debris" or my personal favourite "in the door zone". To be fair for the first one, councils do very rarely bother to get the road sweepers out to clear the clutter, and I'm sure the problem of pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike just chucking rubbish on the ground/in the gutter/out the window is applicable to NZ as well. To the "door zone" thing, the risk of running into a door is inversely proportional to the attentiveness of the cyclist to their surroundings (like a motorist, they should practice "defensive cycling") and directly proportional to the idiocy of the operators of the parked vehicles. Motorists should be head checking before opening doors (and interestingly enough, in cities like San Francisco, Uber used to display reminder messages to passengers when the ride ended to check the blind spots for cyclists before opening the door - this advice is universally applicable, not just to Ubers).

I haven't checked the NZ road rules recently, but some Australian states have actually made it an offence for cyclists to use the footpath when a cycle lane exists. I'm not convinced this is the best idea, but it's probably past time Waka Kotahi got off their rear and made an awareness campaign about something other than drink driving or speeding for a change. Put out something to remind motorists that cyclists and pedestrians exist and to watch out for them - and the rules around the obligations, and separately a campaign for pedestrians and cyclists to inform them of the road rules, since many of them just seem to think they only apply to cars etc. Send out police for a blitz campaign and have them caution people for breaking the rules and hand out information sheets - proactive policing is a better use of their time than handing out the 1,554,735,275th ticket for speeding, unfortunately it doesn't fill government coffers.

johno1234

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#3211842 28-Mar-2024 11:29

Kyanar:

alasta:

I work on Bowen Street. There are cycle lanes recently installed there, but most of the cyclists that I see are still using the footpath.

That's relatively common unfortunately. Cyclists often use the excuse that the cycle lane is "poorly maintained" and "full of debris" or my personal favourite "in the door zone". To be fair for the first one, councils do very rarely bother to get the road sweepers out to clear the clutter, and I'm sure the problem of pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike just chucking rubbish on the ground/in the gutter/out the window is applicable to NZ as well. To the "door zone" thing, the risk of running into a door is inversely proportional to the attentiveness of the cyclist to their surroundings (like a motorist, they should practice "defensive cycling") and directly proportional to the idiocy of the operators of the parked vehicles. Motorists should be head checking before opening doors (and interestingly enough, in cities like San Francisco, Uber used to display reminder messages to passengers when the ride ended to check the blind spots for cyclists before opening the door - this advice is universally applicable, not just to Ubers).

I haven't checked the NZ road rules recently, but some Australian states have actually made it an offence for cyclists to use the footpath when a cycle lane exists. I'm not convinced this is the best idea, but it's probably past time Waka Kotahi got off their rear and made an awareness campaign about something other than drink driving or speeding for a change. Put out something to remind motorists that cyclists and pedestrians exist and to watch out for them - and the rules around the obligations, and separately a campaign for pedestrians and cyclists to inform them of the road rules, since many of them just seem to think they only apply to cars etc. Send out police for a blitz campaign and have them caution people for breaking the rules and hand out information sheets - proactive policing is a better use of their time than handing out the 1,554,735,275th ticket for speeding, unfortunately it doesn't fill government coffers.

Footpath seems like the safest place for small children on bikes who don't go very fast.

networkn

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#3211846 28-Mar-2024 11:44

Our kids ride in the footpath unless there is a barriered cycle lane due to the lack of care shown by motorists. The consequences of an incident is unimaginable to me. My kids ride slowly and watch driveways carefully.

Kyanar

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#3211870 28-Mar-2024 13:11

johno1234:

Footpath seems like the safest place for small children on bikes who don't go very fast.

I should probably have elaborated on that - children aged 16 years of age and younger are exempt from the requirement to use a cycle lane - they are permitted to ride on the footpath at all times, as are adults supervising children cycling, adults with a passenger under 10 years old, and those with a medical condition and a certificate from their GP that states that the GP believes the rider should be on the footpath instead of the road.

The way I see it, that's a good compromise, but it does need to be accompanied with a blitz on motorists doing the wrong thing that puts cyclists doing the right thing at risk, an information campaign to cyclists to inform them of their own obligations, and encouraging defensive riding the way we encourage defensive driving, and pressure on councils to maintain their cycle lanes rather than dumping down some paint and then disappearing into the sunset.

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