EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#3355483 20-Mar-2025 09:32

Asteros: Firstly, I don't know much about electric cars. I see that BYD have announced plans for 1 Megawatt charging in China. How difficult, in terms of cost and infrastructure,

So a two stall minimum size EV charging station would have to be able to support a 2MW load - probably slightly more as there must be some internal losses in the charging equipment itself.
Not many NZ distribution networks would support a new 2MW point load dropped in at some random place - that's equivalent to a couple of hundred typical household peak loads. Usually a new 2MVA transformer would only be installed after a significant degree of network planning. This would be worse than usual as the load would be extremely spikey as vehicles connected, charged at maximum rate, then disconnected and drove away. Horrible load profile

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#3355538 20-Mar-2025 09:59

PolicyGuy:

Asteros: Firstly, I don't know much about electric cars. I see that BYD have announced plans for 1 Megawatt charging in China. How difficult, in terms of cost and infrastructure,

So a two stall minimum size EV charging station would have to be able to support a 2MW load - probably slightly more as there must be some internal losses in the charging equipment itself.
Not many NZ distribution networks would support a new 2MW point load dropped in at some random place - that's equivalent to a couple of hundred typical household peak loads. Usually a new 2MVA transformer would only be installed after a significant degree of network planning. This would be worse than usual as the load would be extremely spikey as vehicles connected, charged at maximum rate, then disconnected and drove away. Horrible load profile

Or could the load demands of such a station could be buffered by way of supply from a large battery unit?

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#3355541 20-Mar-2025 10:11

HarmLessSolutions:

Or could the load demands of such a station could be buffered by way of supply from a large battery unit?

Yeah, that's an approach used in some remote places already. A 1000kWh battery doesn't take up much space but would still provide a decent buffer.

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alasta

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#3355553 20-Mar-2025 11:07

Scott3:

Regarding EV ownership without the ability to charge at home (or work), generally I advise against it.

Home (or workplace) charging is the sauce that makes EV ownership viable. Without it EV ownership is less convenient than say a comparable Toyota / Lexus hybrid, and with the EV paying more than double the road tax, and public DC charging costs, the EV is going to be a lot more expensive to fuel.

In anticipation of fleetwide RUC, I just did an analysis of the energy cost for a hybrid versus a public charged electric car with FED/RUC excluded in both cases. It seems to break even roughly where the petrol/hybrid consumes 6l/100km. So, under fleetwide RUC there wouldn't be any significant difference between hybrid versus electric, but in the interim the hybrid is definitely the better option due to the way in which the current FED/RUC system works.

By the time fleetwide RUC is introduced I suspect that electric vehicles from mainstream manufacturers will have got cheaper and the quality of Chinese offerings will have further improved. At that point it will boil down to whether you want the convenience of instantly fuelling a petrol/hybrid versus the driving and environmental benefits of electric.

Yes, a longer range EV and a DC charge at a weekly supermarket shop can mean the convenance impact is minimal, but it is still not perfect. My closest few supermarkets do not have EV chargers, and the one that does only has a single (50kW) unit. If it is in use of out of service, I would need to go elsewhere.

As I said above, it's not really a problem for me as I do very limited urban mileage and I spend at least an hour a week at the local pool where there is a pair of chargers that are rarely in use.

Long term we are going to need to make home charging a lot more available (Currently seems quite hard for many living in apartment buildings. At some point I think we need California style legislation which prevents body corps from blocking EV charger installs).

I think this has been discussed here previously, but as a committee member of my complex's residents' association, I can assure you that we are not "blocking EV charger installs". The reality for us is that our townhouse complex has a shared parking facility where a third party owns the electrical infrastructure, and there would be major commercial and technical challenges associated with making chargers available. Legislation forcing us to address this would put further stress on overworked volunteers who are already grappling with a number of other difficult issues.

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#3355559 20-Mar-2025 11:30

alasta:

Legislation forcing us to address this would put further stress on overworked volunteers who are already grappling with a number of other difficult issues.

I don't think legislation to 'force [people] to address the issue' would be the route to take. It would be legislation that changes consenting for access etc. from opt-in to opt-out (and you better have a great reason). That way the fact that the electrical infrastructure is owned by a third party would no longer be an impediment. You could tap into it as of right.

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#3355699 20-Mar-2025 17:20

Higher rates on property without a certain number of chargers per unit or similar should sort it out. Use those rates to fund public charging infrastructure so either way chargers get built.

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#3355716 20-Mar-2025 18:53

richms:

Higher rates on property without a certain number of chargers per unit or similar should sort it out. Use those rates to fund public charging infrastructure so either way chargers get built.

Yes, right, ok, that idea will totally fly.

The majority of home owners already grappling with double digit rate increases would happily fork out even more to fund the pipe dream of a minority of EV enthusiasts.

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#3355717 20-Mar-2025 18:56

Sounded more like it was directed at commercial property owners / home body corporates as opposed to individual home owners.

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#3355749 20-Mar-2025 21:35

richms:

Higher rates on property without a certain number of chargers per unit or similar should sort it out. Use those rates to fund public charging infrastructure so either way chargers get built.

This is such a poorly thought-out idea. What about people who do not have garages, or even drive for that matter?

Scott3

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#3355768 20-Mar-2025 22:39

I was thinking of something along the lines of "Right To Charge Laws" in California and other locations.

I'm not an expert in this by any means, but i understand it means Landlords and HOA's are required to accept Tenants / owners written request to install charging equipment for their own use if they have a dedicated parking space.

The Tennant / owner need to carry the full cost of the install & power. The install could be very expensive if it triggers a capacity upgrade, long cable run back to units metered supply etc. But if the owner /tennant is willing to carry that cost the Owner & HOA cannot say no.

California from 2026 will require that any new unit with a parking space in a multi-family development (apartments/condos), at least one of the parking spots must be “EV Ready.” (20 amp+ outlet or EVSE).

Power sharing is allowed, as long as the system can provide 3.3 kW simultaneously to each unit.

fastbike

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#3355788 20-Mar-2025 22:49

dafman:

richms:

Higher rates on property without a certain number of chargers per unit or similar should sort it out. Use those rates to fund public charging infrastructure so either way chargers get built.

Yes, right, ok, that idea will totally fly.

The majority of home owners already grappling with double digit rate increases would happily fork out even more to fund the pipe dream of a minority of EV enthusiasts.

Most of the double digit rates increases are the result of central government growing the population (because it increases GST and income tax take) without helping local authorities fund the required infrastructure. Our whole infrastructure planning/funding has become a cluster of epic proportions to keep the baby boomer voters onside, have your cake without having to pay for it etc.

Time to bring back MoW to plan the required power / transport (rail), hospital, education without the rort that PPP involves.

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#3355801 20-Mar-2025 23:04

In Norway there is a law now that establishes that anyone with the right to park in a parking space in a apartment building or in a housing association has the right to get an EV charger installed.

My impression is that the usual way it is handled is that the co-op/apartment building association or housing association have an agreement with an installer that handles installation, and whoever wants the charger installed has to cover the installation cost.

I think it is a fair way to do it, and it makes sure that the necessary infrastructure can be put in place.

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alasta

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#3355830 21-Mar-2025 09:03

jarledb:

In Norway there is a law now that establishes that anyone with the right to park in a parking space in a apartment building or in a housing association has the right to get an EV charger installed.

My impression is that the usual way it is handled is that the co-op/apartment building association or housing association have an agreement with an installer that handles installation, and whoever wants the charger installed has to cover the installation cost.

The idea of "having an agreement with an installer" sounds easy, but in reality it could involve many hours of work to research where the electrical infrastructure resides, who owns it, what is its capacity, what commercial arrangements are needed with third parties, etc. Our volunteers don't have the time for this, and our residents can't afford to pay someone else to do it as we have already had huge increases in levies due to insurance and council rates.

In principle I agree that townhouse complexes should ideally have EV charging available, but you don't really appreciate the complexities until you've been involved in the governance of a body corporate or residents' association.

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#3355843 21-Mar-2025 09:28

alasta:

jarledb:

In Norway there is a law now that establishes that anyone with the right to park in a parking space in a apartment building or in a housing association has the right to get an EV charger installed.

My impression is that the usual way it is handled is that the co-op/apartment building association or housing association have an agreement with an installer that handles installation, and whoever wants the charger installed has to cover the installation cost.

The idea of "having an agreement with an installer" sounds easy, but in reality it could involve many hours of work to research where the electrical infrastructure resides, who owns it, what is its capacity, what commercial arrangements are needed with third parties, etc. Our volunteers don't have the time for this, and our residents can't afford to pay someone else to do it as we have already had huge increases in levies due to insurance and council rates.

In principle I agree that townhouse complexes should ideally have EV charging available, but you don't really appreciate the complexities until you've been involved in the governance of a body corporate or residents' association.

Given that the owner who wants the charger is the one who's paying, the "agreement" could just be "do whatever you need to do and bill that guy".

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jonathan18

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#3359122 31-Mar-2025 15:03

jonathan18:

They’ve tried this in NZ too, in cases re-purposing old Leaf batteries. (eg https://countiesenergy.co.nz/media-centre/counties-energy-repurposes-end-of-life-ev-batteries-to-recharge-new-ev-cars/)

One of the worst black spots in the South Island for EV charging is supposed to be fixed by a similar charger (only 2x50 kW chargers - even those slow speeds are only possible due to the batteries) in Spring’s Junction, but that’s been promised for ages (years I believe); I see a press release in Nov 24 promises action soon, but I can’t see any indication it’s open yet? https://www.meridianenergy.co.nz/news-and-events/media-release-an-oasis-for-south-islands-ev-charging-desert

Just got an email from Zero (Meridian) that the Springs Junction charger is up and running:

Springs Junction is live! As a Zero user, we wanted you to be the first to know!

Find out more Springs Junction is pretty remote and as a result, it has some unique challenges when it comes to its energy supply. To address this, we rolled up our sleeves and installed some of the first battery-backed DC fast chargers in Aotearoa. On site you'll find two 50kW chargers powered by a Battery Energy Storage System (BESS). The BESS units charge overnight when there’s more electricity available, so that the chargers can run independently during the day, despite the limited local power supply.

Because these chargers are powered by batteries, charging at Springs Junction isn't guaranteed. If the batteries run out, you won't be able to charge. We encourage you to check the amount of energy available in the batteries before you turn up.

Check energy availability To make driving electric easier for you, we're planning to install chargers in Culverden, St Arnaud and Murchison.

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