EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) for Home Use

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17 posts

Geek

#2879701 6-Mar-2022 12:43

Decal:

With the Tesla UMC it doesnt come with the latest firmware allowing full current draw from factory. It takes a few hours plugged into the car at 100% to update.

The UMC can handle up to 32amps on a single phase so you can get 7kw :) on the mobile charger

I have the same issue 15a plug fitted and only drawing a max of 12a. Did you just leave the charger plugged in to get ithe firmware upgraded, if so how long for? I have a model 3 just got it and cannot see anyway to do a firmware uograde on the mobile charger via the app or in car screen.

Thanks for your help.

Decal

222 posts

Master Geek

ID Verified

#2879704 6-Mar-2022 12:49

Yeah just leave it plugged in once it's fully charged. I have heard it can take a few hours

RunningMan

8961 posts

Uber Geek

#2879907 6-Mar-2022 18:40

@Scott3 bit late I know, but just saw that the Evnex series all have active load management to reduce charge rate as your house supply nears capacity which was something you were after. They can load share across multiple devices.

They also have solar diversion to divert solar to the car instead of grid.

I'd kind of thought they were a little over priced, but having done a bit more reading, they also have OCPP, DC protection built in, NZ made and multiple config options.

hobsonlea

281 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2879911 6-Mar-2022 18:50

rendini:
Decal:

With the Tesla UMC it doesnt come with the latest firmware allowing full current draw from factory. It takes a few hours plugged into the car at 100% to update.

The UMC can handle up to 32amps on a single phase so you can get 7kw :) on the mobile charger

I have the same issue 15a plug fitted and only drawing a max of 12a. Did you just leave the charger plugged in to get ithe firmware upgraded, if so how long for? I have a model 3 just got it and cannot see anyway to do a firmware uograde on the mobile charger via the app or in car screen.

Thanks for your help.

Mine took 48hrs to go from 12a to 15a. Unplugged twice and used car twice at least.. and then voila 15a and still 15a. There’s helpful info about the process the Tesla plug and box testing the 15a circuit and plug temps before giving it the ok. My electrician was curious ..

rendini

17 posts

Geek

#2879964 6-Mar-2022 20:32

Decal: Thanks for that left it 2-3 hours at 100% and it upgraded, thanks to this forum! I did not see anything in telsa manuals about this.

Thanks again!

Dingbatt

6756 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2903365 18-Apr-2022 07:24

I note Tesla has now changed their provision of a UMC with their new vehicles in the USA (removed the word “included” from the order page). People are not happy. Musk says data proves they aren’t used much so their inclusion is “wasteful”.

As far as I know retailers in NZ are required to provide a mobile EVSE when they sell a vehicle. Is that correct?

I blame Apple for starting this trend. And Samsung for copying it.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Obraik

2123 posts

Uber Geek

#2903390 18-Apr-2022 09:18

I don't believe there's any requirement to include EVSE with a car here. They just have to make sure whatever they include is fit for use here (aka. No 200v Japanese charger) with an import Leaf.

I'm not so sure that this change will make it to NZ, assuming the "low usage stats" are a legit reason. In the US, using the included charger on a standard 110v outlet is almost useless so most who charge at home have to get an electrician in to add a 240v circuit and at that point many just install a Wall Connector. It's a different story here where most can get by using the included charger on a normal 240v outlet.

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Dingbatt

6756 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2903681 19-Apr-2022 09:31

I don’t mind (if it’s not required in NZ) as long as it’s reflected in the price (decreasing it). If it keeps the vehicle from going over the magical $80K, then all the better. After all, you are going to have 6-9 months lead time from ordering the car until it arrives, to get a UMC.

Bad news on the wall charge point front for me though. As I suspected, our 1980s distribution (fuse) board is not going to allow the addition of a 32A EVSE (or even an additional higher current outlet). So the next step is a rebuild and update of the distribution board. After I recover from the bill shock of that I will revisit the EVSE. Hopefully I will be able to compare the “Zappi” with the competition by then.

I wondered if I was getting the distribution board updated anyway, whether there was the ability to load monitor (and control) at that point, rather than have the EVSE (such as Evnex) do it? Is it even possible to have the current supplied on a particular circuit restricted? Effectively throttling it as required. And how would something like the Tesla Gen 3 cope with that?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Obraik

2123 posts

Uber Geek

#2903683 19-Apr-2022 09:40

I suspect the Gen 3, or any EVSE will get unhappy if the upstream power is modified outside of its own control.

Your other option is to go the nerd way and control it with software via the car, since you have a Tesla. There are a number of ways (such as Home Assistant/Node Red) that you can use Tesla's API to tell the car to reduce the power it's consuming. This way can be a bit fiddly and it assumes Tesla doesn't mess with access to the API.

It's probably going to be cleaner to just get an EVSE that has that functionality.

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Dingbatt

6756 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2903691 19-Apr-2022 10:00

Yes. And that is probably be what I’ll end up doing. It’s just if I am getting the board redone I don’t want to discover I should have included a feature at that time that would have made life easier.

I understand that the interoperability with the car from my watch and via Tasker on my phone are but a Tesla software update away from being broken. Which is why I would be reluctant to have something as important as the electrical load on the house rely on it.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

cthombor

81 posts

Master Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2903811 19-Apr-2022 13:48

Dingbatt:

... I wondered if I was getting the distribution board updated anyway, whether there was the ability to load monitor (and control) at that point, rather than have the EVSE (such as Evnex) do it? Is it even possible to have the current supplied on a particular circuit restricted? Effectively throttling it as required. And how would something like the Tesla Gen 3 cope with that?

I looked into household load-controllers a few years ago, and again just now. My impression is that various consortia are *still* fighting over standards.

To summarise my blithering below... I'd say it's premature to install a smart-controller on your distribution board. Instead you'll just have to cobble something together, perhaps building around a mode-3 EVSE from Evnex (https://www.evnex.com/articles/ev-charging-with-solar-panels) or Wallbox (https://wallbox.com/en_nz/energy-management/eco-smart-solar-ev-charging).

<crystal-ball-reading>

"Eenie meenie chilli beanie, the spirits are about to speak!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvGoIWBPrZ4)

* We'll see the usual outcome in world-standardisation for consumer goods: for many years there'll be multiple standards-in-development, some will die off along the way, while others will soldier on to the point that they can sell some products to consumers. All of the consortia will claim to offer an interoperable standard: meaning that they can see no reason why some manufacturer who had joined another consortium can't complete the hard-yards of sorting out the interoperability tangles. Yeah right.

* If we were living in Europe, EEBus would be a good bet *if* you like Bosch and Siemens appliances. At a glance (and I really don't care to take the time required for a full investigation!), the underlying tech came out of Bosch and Siemens is fully-enrolled in the project See https://www.eebus.org/news/. ACSolar claims (without *any* indicative timeline that I can see) that an EEBus-compliant storage battery from EnPhase is "coming soon" to Australia and New Zealand, see https://www.acsolarwarehouse.com/products/enphase-iq-battery-3/. SMA sells an EEBus-compliant Sunny Home Manager into Euro markets (https://www.sma.de/en/eebus-uniform-communication-standard.html); but I can't guess when (or even *if*) they'll bother to get an SDOC for Australia or NZ. "The EEBus works as a common language for the IoT across the different domains and technologies (IP, KNX, Zigbee, etc.), see https://www.eebus.org/de/eebus-enables-the-interoperable-services-for-the-internet-of-things-on-the-worldline-booth-at-ifa/).

* Amazon soldiers on. https://www.amazon.com/alexa-smart-home/b?ie=UTF8&node=21442899011

* Samsung soldiers on. https://www.samsung.com/us/smart-home/smartthings/b2bapp/

* Google has bowed out of the competition.

* The battle lines have been drawn between Zigbee and Z-Wave over the structure of a wireless network for "home automation". One group of academics in the Netherlands have picked Zigbee as the most likely winner. "All ingredients for a fierce and long-lasting standards battle appear to be present. Stakeholders disagree on standards [6], and two consortia, the Z-Wave Alliance and the Zigbee Alliance have developed two competing standards and attempt to enlist (consumer electronics) companies into their network..." https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214629621003947

* PDL offers a C-Wave wired network to consumers in Australia and NZ (https://www.pdl.co.nz/learn-and-discover/c-bus)

* Tesla will continue to go its own way, using proprietary signalling between an automobile, an EVSE, a home-storage battery, and someday soon (or as soon as possible, this being Tesla) a roofing system that incorporates "solar shingles".

</crystal-ball-reading>

"Your mileage may vary!"

cthombor

81 posts

Master Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2903837 19-Apr-2022 14:18

Obraik:

I suspect the Gen 3, or any EVSE will get unhappy if the upstream power is modified outside of its own control.

Hmmm good point... but I *think* it's only the EVSE that will be unhappy if its input power is throttled. I'm saying this because Pod-Point *claims* that its "Smart Home Charger" is compatible with Tesla Model 3, see https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/tesla/2021/model-3. Obviously *some* automobiles may not accept a "renegotiation" of the charging power by an EVSE which is seeking to vary the power in its current session... but at least Pod-Point claims this is possible with a Tesla Gen 3, and it is routinely possible for other EVs (otherwise we wouldn't see products from Evnex and Wallbox which do this). Well obviously: it'd be important for a Tesla-owner to get a Tesla-compatibility assurance from Evnex or Wallbox or whoever (other than Tesla itself) is supplying their mode-3 EVSE!

I *think* the only tricky automobile-related issue which will arise when an EVSE has variable input power may be to start another charging session *without* requiring anyone to unplug the car from the EVSE. This obviously would be a pain-in-the-!@$)(* if you're trying to do a "fully solar charge" (without ever sucking power from the grid or your household's storage battery) and your household has 1.5kW (+/- 0.5 kW) of "excess power" on a day with variable clouds. Even putting the kettle on for a cuppa during mid-day could disrupt an EV charging session!

If the EVSE is wired with a bog-standard 230V AC supply, then a charging session would have to be aborted (by the EVSE) whenever it is unable to deliver 6A (1.4 kW) from its supply. Gracefully aborting a charge-session would be a routine function-point for any EVSE -- because brownouts and disconnects are to be expected, at least occasionally -- but starting another one? Dunno...

everettpsycho

614 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2912884 12-May-2022 12:10

We have a 2017 30kW leaf and getting annoyed the 8A wall charger just isn't quite getting us topped up overnight and we are considering a second plug in vehicle of some kind so I'm weighing up options to just take the plunge on an actual charger. Primarily this is to speed the charge up slightly and I'm aware the on board charger won't come close to the full 7kW, but also we need to not overload the garage circuit if we charge two vehicles at once.

I've seen evnex mentioned a few times on multiple threads but has anyone actually got one installed? It's tempting as it seems a decent price and we'll likely just get it installed right under the distribution in the garage so placement isn't much of an issue. Just hesitant to blow $2300 on something if no one else has actually got any feedback on them.

Also worries me slightly the cloud connectivity in these things, I know it has a manual charge function but if they were to go under how useful is the charging point without the servers?

cthombor

81 posts

Master Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2912952 12-May-2022 13:15

everettpsycho:

We have a 2017 30kW leaf and getting annoyed the 8A wall charger just isn't quite getting us topped up overnight and we are considering a second plug in vehicle of some kind so I'm weighing up options to just take the plunge on an actual charger. Primarily this is to speed the charge up slightly and I'm aware the on board charger won't come close to the full 7kW, but also we need to not overload the garage circuit if we charge two vehicles at once.

I've seen evnex mentioned a few times on multiple threads but has anyone actually got one installed? It's tempting as it seems a decent price and we'll likely just get it installed right under the distribution in the garage so placement isn't much of an issue. Just hesitant to blow $2300 on something if no one else has actually got any feedback on them.

Also worries me slightly the cloud connectivity in these things, I know it has a manual charge function but if they were to go under how useful is the charging point without the servers?

Evnex chargers have an excellent reputation on https://www.facebook.com/groups/NZEVOwners. I haven't heard any adverse comments.

I can't answer your question about whether you can charge when the cloud servers are down. I'd guess that this is quite rare -- but it's a good question and I'd *hope* that Evnex would reveal downtime statistics. A related question -- probably more important to answer if you're worrying about downtime -- would be whether your Evnex unit could be configured so that it'd have a manual override you could use when it is unable to connect to the internet for an extended period of time e.g. because the cellphone network is down or overloaded in your area. However you would have an "easy" way to get at least a partial charge, if you mothball your existing 8A charging setup.

cthombor

81 posts

Master Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2912961 12-May-2022 13:32

everettpsycho:

We have a 2017 30kW leaf and getting annoyed the 8A wall charger just isn't quite getting us topped up overnight and we are considering a second plug in vehicle of some kind so I'm weighing up options to just take the plunge on an actual charger. Primarily this is to speed the charge up slightly and I'm aware the on board charger won't come close to the full 7kW, but also we need to not overload the garage circuit if we charge two vehicles at once.

Your 2017 30kW Leaf might have either a 6.6kW onboard charger or a 3.3kW onboard charger. If it has a 3.3kW on-board charger, it'll take about 8h to charge from 20% to 100% if it is charged from a 7kW charger -- and it'd take just as long if it were charged at 3.3kW using a 15A 230VAC supply. The 7kW chargers can deliver up to 30A -- and wiring a 30A unit in your garage *might* be spendy... so you might get a firm quote on the installation cost before proceeding with this. That said -- I'd say it's *much* safer to be using a dedicated "mode 3" EV charger that's wired into your house supply by a competent electrician, than to be plugging an 8A "mode 2" portable EV charging device into an aging wall-socket in your garage (unless that socket and its wiring has been inspected by a competent electrician)!

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