OMG! Police Road Safety Acquires Functional Neurons!

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kryptonjohn

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#225839 7-Dec-2017 13:22

It's taken a long time, but someone there finally gets it:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/99497065/a-quarter-of-all-roadpolice-tickets-have-no-relevance-to-safety

I've said this all along. Setting up a speed trap on an overtaking lane will garner lots of tickets for cars doing 110kph but do less than nothing for safety.

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#1914605 7-Dec-2017 14:19

Aside from Reg & RUC I wonder what other, if any, Police infringement notices regularly actually contribute to this "1/4 of tickets having no relevance to safety".

"Out of date warrant of fitness stickers do not necessarily mean the vehicle is unsafe to drive."

...well it sure as hell doesn't show the vehicle is safe to drive without one. WOF inspections are there for a good reason.

Despite what the article implies Road Policing does not hold sole function to maintain road safety; it is also responsible for enforcing payment of road-related taxes (registration, road user charges, commercial licensing to some extent etc) and compliance (of parking etc) - a mandate it inherited from the amalgamation with MOT.

Personally I'm all for separating traffic safety and tax enforcement however whilst Police have the mandate there's no point bashing them for doing their job.

This belongs in GZ/Politics

vexxxboy

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#1914608 7-Dec-2017 14:25

solutionz:

Aside from Reg & RUC I wonder what other, if any, Police infringement notices regularly actually contribute to this "1/4 of tickets having no relevance to safety".

"Out of date warrant of fitness stickers do not necessarily mean the vehicle is unsafe to drive."

...well it sure as hell doesn't show the vehicle is safe to drive without one. WOF inspections are there for a good reason.

Despite what the article implies Road Policing does not hold sole function to maintain road safety; it is also responsible for enforcing payment of road-related taxes (registration, road user charges, commercial licensing to some extent etc) and compliance (of parking etc) - a mandate it inherited from the amalgamation with MOT.

Personally I'm all for separating traffic safety and tax enforcement however whilst Police have the mandate there's no point bashing them for doing their job.

This belongs in GZ/Politics

most of the out of date WOF's he is talking about are just people forgetting to get the inspection . the majority would pass if you did the test there and then, so it isnt a safety issue just laziness.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

kryptonjohn

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#1914610 7-Dec-2017 14:28

Ticketing someone for overtaking on a clear passing lane at 110kph has no relevance to safety. They're better to overtake a little faster and for a little less time than hanging out there for a long time attempting to overtake someone who has a natural tendency to speed up on passing lanes.

Ticketing someone for searching an address on their mobile phone GPS while stopped in a red light queue (in Auckland rush hour crawl traffic, happened to me) has no relevance to safety. The copper actually created the safety issue by getting out of the passenger side of his car while in a traffic lane. Would have been nasty if a cyclist was coming past.

As explained by the article, police have been evaluated on their ticket quota. Finding technicalities to issue tickets doesn't make driving safer.

And I disagree this belongs in politics. Not a political issue, it's a management issue.

solutionz

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#1914660 7-Dec-2017 15:07

kryptonjohn:

Ticketing someone for overtaking on a clear passing lane at 110kph has no relevance to safety. They're better to overtake a little faster and for a little less time than hanging out there for a long time attempting to overtake someone who has a natural tendency to speed up on passing lanes.

How about 111km/hr, 120km/hr, 130km/hr? Have to draw a line somewhere.

It's not Police who set the laws, they already apply discretion between 5-10km/hr; complain to your local politician / NZTA.

kryptonjohn:

Ticketing someone for searching an address on their mobile phone GPS while stopped in a red light queue (in Auckland rush hour crawl traffic, happened to me) has no relevance to safety.

Red light or crawl? Or both? How fast should be considered a "crawl"? How would you write that into an amendment bill?

I've seen plenty of incidents where mobile use (even at a crawl) was a factor.

But of course "we" are the "good drivers" so we feel confident enough to bend the rules at our discretion. However because we maintain such a superior awareness of our surroundings (even when using a mobile phone) we notice speed cameras and traffic cops a mile off so tickets don't concern us anyway - therefore this argument is moot for us.

Senecio

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#1914668 7-Dec-2017 15:15

A friend of mine was hit from behind bay a crawling driver on a mobile phone in stop-start traffic. Still managed to rack up $3,500 repair bill! No sympathy for the phone use at any time.

Is it really a problem that some tickets are not directly related to safety? I don't believe it is. Policing is about managing people's habits so that as a population we are all safer. Imagine if a workplace took a stance that its H&S team would only get involved after and accident occurred?

kryptonjohn

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#1914669 7-Dec-2017 15:17

solutionz:

How about 111km/hr, 120km/hr, 130km/hr? Have to draw a line somewhere.

It's not Police who set the laws, they already apply discretion between 5-10km/hr; complain to your local politician / NZTA.

Police always have discretion. So I'd like them to use discretion rather than a need to meet a ticket quota when deciding whether to write a ticket. Thanks for proving my point for me.

solutionz:

Red light or crawl? Or both? How fast should be considered a "crawl"? How would you write that into an amendment bill?

I've seen plenty of incidents where mobile use (even at a crawl) was a factor.

OK you are now being silly and argumentative so I won't be bothering to reply to you after this: It was a red light, the traffic in my direction was obviously stationary, but otherwise traffic in the area was crawling when moving.

solutionz:

But of course "we" are the "good drivers" so we feel confident enough to bend the rules at our discretion. However because we maintain such a superior awareness of our surroundings (even when using a mobile phone) we notice speed cameras and traffic cops a mile off so tickets don't concern us anyway - therefore this argument is moot for us.

No. You are sarcastic, argumentative and have either intentionally missed the point or never managed to grasp it in the first place.

Perhaps you didn't read the article, or perhaps you feel you know better than Waikato Road Policing Manager Inspector Marcus Lynam. Either way, goodbye.

kryptonjohn

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#1914671 7-Dec-2017 15:23

Senecio:

A friend of mine was hit from behind bay a crawling driver on a mobile phone in stop-start traffic. Still managed to rack up $3,500 repair bill! No sympathy for the phone use at any time.

Agreed. Nobody should be using a hand held device in a moving vehicle, even if slowly. As the copper helpfully pointed out, it technically becomes legal to use a hand held phone in a car when stopped at the kerb but not at a traffic light. So by removing the red traffic light and moving the car a couple of feet to the left it would become legal!

As I said, nothing to do with safety in this particular case. No discretion applied.

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Coil

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#1914675 7-Dec-2017 15:29

Police need to invest in education of our drivers. We need to pass a behavioral test on scenarios and be educated on driving behavior before we should be allowed to drive. Everyone is going to drive like a saint on their practical tests.

Regarding overtaking lanes or "Drag Strips" often I'll be passing a bell end in a Ute towing a trailer (Who thinks they are more entitled than anyone else because they got a endowment extension) doing 115 at least in the slow lane. Plenty of times (1-2 on SH1 AKL to WHG I'll fly by a cop at 120-130 in overtaking lanes and the worst I got was a flash from them on the side of the road and no pursuit. Yet to be ticketed in my existence.

Coil

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#1914678 7-Dec-2017 15:33

kryptonjohn:

Senecio:

A friend of mine was hit from behind bay a crawling driver on a mobile phone in stop-start traffic. Still managed to rack up $3,500 repair bill! No sympathy for the phone use at any time.

Agreed. Nobody should be using a hand held device in a moving vehicle, even if slowly. As the copper helpfully pointed out, it technically becomes legal to use a hand held phone in a car when stopped at the kerb but not at a traffic light. So by removing the red traffic light and moving the car a couple of feet to the left it would become legal!

As I said, nothing to do with safety in this particular case. No discretion applied.

I don't think its bad using a phone at a red light, But you should still be aware for when it goes green and other objects that may hit you.

kryptonjohn

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#1914679 7-Dec-2017 15:34

Coil:

Police need to invest in education of our drivers. We need to pass a behavioral test on scenarios and be educated on driving behavior before we should be allowed to drive. Everyone is going to drive like a saint on their practical tests.

Regarding overtaking lanes or "Drag Strips" often I'll be passing a bell end in a Ute towing a trailer (Who thinks they are more entitled than anyone else because they got a endowment extension) doing 115 at least in the slow lane. Plenty of times (1-2 on SH1 AKL to WHG I'll fly by a cop at 120-130 in overtaking lanes and the worst I got was a flash from them on the side of the road and no pursuit. Yet to be ticketed in my existence.

You should buy a lotto ticket! You're either lucky, or the copper already made quota, or was about to end shift, or there was too much traffic for him to bother with a u-turn, or he couldn't get a speed reading due to too many moving vehicles in his zone.

Coil

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#1914688 7-Dec-2017 15:39

kryptonjohn:

Coil:

Police need to invest in education of our drivers. We need to pass a behavioral test on scenarios and be educated on driving behavior before we should be allowed to drive. Everyone is going to drive like a saint on their practical tests.

Regarding overtaking lanes or "Drag Strips" often I'll be passing a bell end in a Ute towing a trailer (Who thinks they are more entitled than anyone else because they got a endowment extension) doing 115 at least in the slow lane. Plenty of times (1-2 on SH1 AKL to WHG I'll fly by a cop at 120-130 in overtaking lanes and the worst I got was a flash from them on the side of the road and no pursuit. Yet to be ticketed in my existence.

You should buy a lotto ticket! You're either lucky, or the copper already made quota, or was about to end shift, or there was too much traffic for him to bother with a u-turn, or he couldn't get a speed reading due to too many moving vehicles in his zone.

I do this trip 2 times a month on average and been doing it for 4 years. No problems at all.
I just don't speed in dome valley. I watch all the rushers fly past me (Doing 85) and most times I see people currently pulled over or getting pulled over. I would say I don't gamble, But....

solutionz

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#1914690 7-Dec-2017 15:46

kryptonjohn:

OK you are now being silly and argumentative so I won't be bothering to reply to you after this: It was a red light, the traffic in my direction was obviously stationary, but otherwise traffic in the area was crawling when moving.

I wasn't trying to catch you out on your story; I was simply asking where do you draw the line... You say you should be able to use your mobile at red lights; how about at a give-way, driving in a car park etc etc etc. The law already provides exemptions for interacting with a properly mounted device "briefly & infrequently" which is designed for your GPS scenario.

kryptonjohn:

No. You are sarcastic, argumentative and have either intentionally missed the point or never managed to grasp it in the first place.

I was actually being brutally honest. Like everyone of course I bend the rules sometimes but at all times I like to think I'm driving within my capability (inc ability to multitask & process sufficient information at the given speed) and according to the environment (vehicle, road, weather, other users etc) with sufficient safety margin; whether that's overtaking at slight excess or using a mobile phone. The moment I get a ticket will cause me to seriously re-evaluate my perception of my capabilities; because if I didn't notice that cop car or speed camera how many other hazards did I miss in my surroundings.

kryptonjohn:

Perhaps you didn't read the article, or perhaps you feel you know better than Waikato Road Policing Manager Inspector Marcus Lynam. Either way, goodbye.

More like a know Stuff's propensity to mis-quote and stretch the truth to stir up divisive articles that people will share on social media for shameless clickbait. I think @PeterReader has something to answer for here.

Batman

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#1914704 7-Dec-2017 16:05

Yup I've always thought they have a quota system. Now it's confirmed.

nzjez

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#1914705 7-Dec-2017 16:05

And here In Vic Australia

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5151933/Speed-cameras-detect-drivers-phones-catch-1300.html

Aredwood

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#1914801 7-Dec-2017 18:42

NZ needs far better driver training. You get your licence as a teenager, then it is at least 50 years until your next practical driving test. And there are lots of people on the road who got their license when the practical test was driving round the block in a quiet country town.

We need mandatory practical retesting every 10 years. But the government won't do that, as the baby boomers would oppose it.

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