Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


lchiu7

6470 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#242876 18-Nov-2018 14:50
Send private message

 

 

 

No driver has ever told me as I try to get on a full bus there's one behind coming and who can believe the electronic signage anyway.

 

 

 

This never happened before the bus operator change perhaps because they used larger buses and the routes were better planned.

 

For me the Khandallah bus used to end at Khandallah with the occasional one going to Broadmeadows. Now my route all goes go J'Ville which adds extra passengers with smaller buses. No wonder why they are full.





Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD.  https://www.airbnb.co.nz/h/wellycbd  PM me and mention GZ to get a 15% discount and no AirBnB charges.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
sbiddle
30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  #2128925 18-Nov-2018 15:35
Send private message

Seems completely and utterly pointless. If you're going to send two buses one after the other why not use the extra buses to run extra services between other scheduled services?

 

All that happens is bunching with that new plan.

 

 




robjg63
4096 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  #2128927 18-Nov-2018 15:54
Send private message

sbiddle:

 

Seems completely and utterly pointless. If you're going to send two buses one after the other why not use the extra buses to run extra services between other scheduled services?

 

All that happens is bunching with that new plan.

 

 

 

 

Yes - Because everyone knows that buses run on perfect timetables - absolutely down to the scheduled minute.

 

They never ever get held up in peak time traffic - ever.

 

Yes - I am being horribly sarcastic here and assume you don't use buses frown

 

Come on - think about it....

 

Bus due at 8.00am. Say they come every 10 minutes on peak routes.

 

Bus gets stuck in traffic because an idiot parked in a bus lane and wandered off.

 

The growing crowd at the stop (its now 8.09am BTW and the bus already had a lot of people on it before it got stuck) is now too large to all fit on the 8.00am bus.

 

Fortunately the transport supplier realised that hold ups happen especially at peak times and there is space for everyone on the next bus which is right behind.

 

In Auckland running the larger double-deckers has meant not quite so many 'extra' buses are required - but as the bus service improves then more people use it - which means... more fill in buses.





Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler


Hammerer
2476 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2128930 18-Nov-2018 16:23
Send private message

I don't get your point as a counter argument to sbiddle's statement as you appear to have totally missed his point about the clumping/bunching or buses. Nor do I understand why it required any sarcasm at all even if he was totally disconnected from reality, which he isn't.

 

You seem to be unaware that more than one bus arriving at the same time is a continuing problem that bus companies try hard to avoid:

 

https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/02/scientists-might-found-way-stop-three-buses-arriving-7675747/

 

https://phys.org/news/2018-06-math-bus-route-unreliable.html

 

https://jasmcole.com/2015/03/02/two-come-along-at-once/ for the mathematically inclined

 

Yes, buses get delayed. But, assuming that bus travellers don't change to another form of transport during the delay, the route will continue to have the same capacity and the same demand. So a random delay should not affect the number of fill-in buses which would be sent out based on known demand peaks. Also, in a delay, additional fill-in buses will not get there any faster.

 

I can see the reasoning behind changing the schedule for a transient shift in demand. But if that change in demand is more permanent then it does make sense to change the schedule to include additional pick-up times. Changing the timetable to convert every in-fill basis to a scheduled service has the added benefit of advertising the importance of the route, reducing the average wait time for travellers, and potentially reducing bunching/clumping of buses.

 

 




alasta
6703 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #2128943 18-Nov-2018 16:33
Send private message

My understanding is that NZ Bus are getting double deckers delivered in January and, in the interim, single decker buses are being double dispatched in order to provide sufficient capacity to the timetable that would otherwise be serviced by double deckers.


robjg63
4096 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  #2128946 18-Nov-2018 16:45
Send private message

OK - maybe I should not have replied quite like that - apologies.

 

But I have heard that type of response many times from non public transport users (Mike Hosking's neverending rants for example).

 

I do use buses quite often and it certainly annoys commuters who are waiting when several buses in a row turn up (or go past) 100% full.

 

Essentially, Wellington Transport have admitted they dont have enough capacity on their buses at peak times and that they have to have additional buses to handle the load.

 

So for example if every 10 minutes at peak time they need to move 55 people on a main route and a standard bus can hold a maximum of 40 people, then they will need additional capacity or to increase the frequency. So for example 2 buses for every scheduled time or larger buses.

 

The double decker buses have helped this situation in Auckland significantly. 





Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler


lchiu7

6470 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #2128948 18-Nov-2018 16:53
Send private message

alasta:

My understanding is that NZ Bus are getting double deckers delivered in January and, in the interim, single decker buses are being double dispatched in order to provide sufficient capacity to the timetable that would otherwise be serviced by double deckers.



I can't see a double decker going up Onslow Rd and the other narrow roads in Khandallah




Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD.  https://www.airbnb.co.nz/h/wellycbd  PM me and mention GZ to get a 15% discount and no AirBnB charges.


alasta
6703 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #2128952 18-Nov-2018 17:04
Send private message

lchiu7:
alasta:

 

My understanding is that NZ Bus are getting double deckers delivered in January and, in the interim, single decker buses are being double dispatched in order to provide sufficient capacity to the timetable that would otherwise be serviced by double deckers.

 



I can't see a double decker going up Onslow Rd and the other narrow roads in Khandallah

 

Double deckers manage to get through Hornsey Road and View Road to service the #23 route, so it appears to be possible as long as there are no overhanging tree branches, etc.

 

However if you are using the #22 route then you're correct in thinking that won't get double deckers because that route passes through the Karori and Northland tunnels.


 
 
 

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.
sbiddle
30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  #2128965 18-Nov-2018 17:30
Send private message

robjg63:

 

sbiddle:

 

Seems completely and utterly pointless. If you're going to send two buses one after the other why not use the extra buses to run extra services between other scheduled services?

 

All that happens is bunching with that new plan.

 

 

 

 

Yes - Because everyone knows that buses run on perfect timetables - absolutely down to the scheduled minute.

 

They never ever get held up in peak time traffic - ever.

 

Yes - I am being horribly sarcastic here and assume you don't use buses frown

 

Come on - think about it....

 

Bus due at 8.00am. Say they come every 10 minutes on peak routes.

 

Bus gets stuck in traffic because an idiot parked in a bus lane and wandered off.

 

The growing crowd at the stop (its now 8.09am BTW and the bus already had a lot of people on it before it got stuck) is now too large to all fit on the 8.00am bus.

 

Fortunately the transport supplier realised that hold ups happen especially at peak times and there is space for everyone on the next bus which is right behind.

 

In Auckland running the larger double-deckers has meant not quite so many 'extra' buses are required - but as the bus service improves then more people use it - which means... more fill in buses.

 

 

You're talking about bunching of buses and timetable delays (which Alasta has explained above). This is very different to one of Wellington's major issues which is route capacity as a result of the route changes.

 

Running a bus directly behind another is a dumb way of trying to increase capacity, and for many very obvious reasons that probably don't need 15 mins of explaining will make actually timetable schedules worse. To increase route capacity you need bigger buses (coming) and as a temporary measure need to increase route frequency which helps spread capacity.

 

The fact GWRC simply think running a 2nd bus behind will fix a problem is the exact same lack of logic that got them in this situation in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

 


blackjack17
1705 posts

Uber Geek


  #2128969 18-Nov-2018 17:51
Send private message

I think what everyone is trying to say (didn't see it if it has been stated), it is better to run a bus every 7.5 minutes than two buses every 15 minutes





lchiu7

6470 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #2128985 18-Nov-2018 18:59
Send private message

sbiddle:

 

You're talking about bunching of buses and timetable delays (which Alasta has explained above). This is very different to one of Wellington's major issues which is route capacity as a result of the route changes.

 

 

That was the point I was making. Prior to the change I could catch a 44 to Khandallah or a 46 which went to Broadmeadows.  Now the bus is a 24 and it terminates in Johnsonville. It has picked up all the passengers who used to go to Johnsonville on a different route and with the smaller buses, they are more crowded

 

sbiddle:

 

Running a bus directly behind another is a dumb way of trying to increase capacity, and for many very obvious reasons that probably don't need 15 mins of explaining will make actually timetable schedules worse. To increase route capacity you need bigger buses (coming) and as a temporary measure need to increase route frequency which helps spread capacity.

 

The fact GWRC simply think running a 2nd bus behind will fix a problem is the exact same lack of logic that got them in this situation in the first place.

 

 

The only time running another bus behind the first is if they are articulated and connected :-)





Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD.  https://www.airbnb.co.nz/h/wellycbd  PM me and mention GZ to get a 15% discount and no AirBnB charges.


Scotdownunder
217 posts

Master Geek

Subscriber

  #2128986 18-Nov-2018 19:01
Send private message

True in principle but queing theory tells you that unless the demand is perfectly smooth, the first bus gets delayed loading more passengers while the second bus catches up and has to load fewer passengers which results in bunching. The classic no buses then two come along together scenario.

For my pennyworth, the root of the problem is pushing every bus down the same CBD route leading to four or five buses nose to tail at each stop. Send the Brooklyn buses down Featherstone street and Victoria as well as those going down Taranaki St. Bring the latter back via Jervois Quay.

dfnt
1511 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2128998 18-Nov-2018 20:15
Send private message

lchiu7:
alasta:

 

My understanding is that NZ Bus are getting double deckers delivered in January and, in the interim, single decker buses are being double dispatched in order to provide sufficient capacity to the timetable that would otherwise be serviced by double deckers.

 



I can't see a double decker going up Onslow Rd and the other narrow roads in Khandallah

 

NZ Bus don't run the Khandallah routes anyway so that's a moot point

 

Despite all the problems with the system, it's been good for Broadmeadows having a regular bus service to and from town. Before it was only a small number of buses in the morning to town, then nothing till the afternoon coming from town.


sbiddle
30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  #2128999 18-Nov-2018 20:15
Send private message

Scotdownunder: True in principle but queing theory tells you that unless the demand is perfectly smooth, the first bus gets delayed loading more passengers while the second bus catches up and has to load fewer passengers which results in bunching. The classic no buses then two come along together scenario.

 

And that's part of the reason why running two on purpose makes no sense. Unless the driver in front purposely skips stops to let the bus behind pick up passengers then there is no benefit - and that's unlikely to happen because it'll simply result in mass complains from people who say the bus went past and never stopped.

 

 


Buster
297 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2129047 18-Nov-2018 20:47
Send private message

Seems inefficient to run the overflow bus around the complete route.

 

Why not just delay sending the overflow bus out and time/sequence it to only drive halfway out and collect the last third or half of the route just in front of original bus. Maybe the full bus will pass the overflow bus as it makes its stops. I guess the bus patrons would soon get the idea.


tripper1000
1617 posts

Uber Geek


  #2129118 19-Nov-2018 08:47
Send private message

lchiu7:

 

...No driver has ever told me as I try to get on a full bus there's one behind coming and who can believe the electronic signage anyway....

 

Seems pointless for a bus driver to stop and tell you not to get on - just drive on by. It seems that the two bus drivers need to be in better communication - when one bus gets full, the 2nd one should overtake and become the leader - problem solved.


 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News and reviews »

Air New Zealand Starts AI adoption with OpenAI
Posted 24-Jul-2025 16:00


eero Pro 7 Review
Posted 23-Jul-2025 12:07


BeeStation Plus Review
Posted 21-Jul-2025 14:21


eero Unveils New Wi-Fi 7 Products in New Zealand
Posted 21-Jul-2025 00:01


WiZ Introduces HDMI Sync Box and other Light Devices
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:32


RedShield Enhances DDoS and Bot Attack Protection
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:26


Seagate Ships 30TB Drives
Posted 17-Jul-2025 11:24


Oclean AirPump A10 Water Flosser Review
Posted 13-Jul-2025 11:05


Samsung Galaxy Z Fold7: Raising the Bar for Smartphones
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Samsung Galaxy Z Flip7 Brings New Edge-To-Edge FlexWindow
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Epson Launches New AM-C550Z WorkForce Enterprise printer
Posted 9-Jul-2025 18:22


Samsung Releases Smart Monitor M9
Posted 9-Jul-2025 17:46


Nearly Half of Older Kiwis Still Write their Passwords on Paper
Posted 9-Jul-2025 08:42


D-Link 4G+ Cat6 Wi-Fi 6 DWR-933M Mobile Hotspot Review
Posted 1-Jul-2025 11:34


Oppo A5 Series Launches With New Levels of Durability
Posted 30-Jun-2025 10:15









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.