Making Public Transport Free

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networkn

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#283960 22-Mar-2021 15:14

I wonder if anyone has done the math on what it would cost to run the public transport system free of charge in Wellington or Auckland, and compared this to the cost of continuing to expand the roads, bridges, and all other infrastructure required for commuters to continue to drive?

I don't really have any idea what the total cost would be, but if it was even close to even, the benefits to the ecology would probably push it into the black?

I imagine if you told people there was no cost for public transport, many more people would use it (and no, not everyone, some people have semi, or actually legit reasons for wanting/needing a car to get to and from work). From my perspective, the increase in public transport commuters would then increase the routes and frequency, which would in turn make it more attractive. This would free up the roads, and make those who drive more productive.

Many years ago when I lived in Christchurch, it was $2.50 to get anywhere in CHCH on a bus, and within 4 hours, it was free to return. I nearly died of shock when I moved to Auckland and going from Blockhouse Bay to the city was $6.00 and then $6.00 back again 2 hours later.

Thoughts?

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#2678498 22-Mar-2021 15:17

There is no such thing as a free lunch... Someone pays....

Would you impose an additional charge on local property owners ( rates) to cover the cost...

...or would it be paid nationally from taxes with those across the whole country paying for it

Benoire

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#2678507 22-Mar-2021 15:24

Greater Auckland will have some interesting facts around this but most urban advocates don't consider free transport a thing as it costs too much and diverts away from other areas, however there is something to be said for a higher assistance rate (fare box recovery) that National introduced. This would have the effect of allowing additional services to run across the netwrok without putting the prices up and this may be more effective than creating a free service that would be limited in scope...

Edit: I also always tell myself to stay out of topics like these as I work for said transport authority in quite a senior role that isn't IT related, but can't help myself :-)

blackjack17

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#2678509 22-Mar-2021 15:26

https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2019/01/15/thinking-about-free-fares/

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Hammerer

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#2678511 22-Mar-2021 15:35

For Wellington region, the cost would be somewhere above $250 million a year given that operational costs would increase due to higher patronage if fares were eliminated.

https://haveyoursay.gw.govt.nz/65300/widgets/324070/documents/193795

We have planned to spend $2.5 Billion on public transport over the next 10 years. Around $2 billion will be spent on capital and it will take $500 million to pay for operating costs and to renew our assets.

This year's public transport is 61% funded by subsidies so actual fares do not reflect actual costs, Ratepayers provide 28% and taxpayers the remaining 33%:

39% fare revenue

28% transport rates

30% national funding

3% SuperGold subsidy

frankv

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#2678512 22-Mar-2021 15:35

Somewhat, you need to first increase the routes and frequency for people to use it. If this was being done for free (i.e. no cost recovery from users) you have to have some non-monetary metric for deciding whether a route/timetable is "economic". I suspect that shorter routes with less stops would also be a necessary incentive for widespread use of PT. If it takes 2 hours to get home by PT, and 1 hour by car, I'd choose the car, even if PT was free. All of these things attack the economics of PT -- more routes, more often, more direct all mean that there will be less people in each vehicle, and most likely the vehicle will return empty. The driver's wages become a limiting factor. Autonomous Ubers might make it work?

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kobiak

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#2678516 22-Mar-2021 15:36

there was free inner city route (K'rd to Fish market via central streets) in AKL for 3ish years? before RWC, during and year after RWC?

- then free for hop card holders

- then 50c for card holders

- and then vanished?

it was always packed.

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floydbloke

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#2678519 22-Mar-2021 15:39

Added bonus: it would get rid of the 1960's ticketing system in use on Wellington trains.

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networkn

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#2678521 22-Mar-2021 15:40

wellygary:

There is no such thing as a free lunch... Someone pays....

Would you impose an additional charge on local property owners ( rates) to cover the cost...

...or would it be paid nationally from taxes with those across the whole country paying for it

Well, as I explained, it would be paid for on the savings relative to infrastructure expansions no longer required, and those are already funded, or would be anyway.

Benoire

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#2678522 22-Mar-2021 15:41

The inner link was funded by a private entity that choose to no longer fund it I believe...

wellygary

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#2678523 22-Mar-2021 15:45

networkn:

wellygary:

There is no such thing as a free lunch... Someone pays....

Would you impose an additional charge on local property owners ( rates) to cover the cost...

...or would it be paid nationally from taxes with those across the whole country paying for it

Well, as I explained, it would be paid for on the savings relative to infrastructure expansions no longer required, and those are already funded, or would be anyway.

Funding OpEx out of some promise of unneeded future Capex never works,

The future Capex funding simple gets repurposed somewhere else, the ongoing Opex costs remain

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2678524 22-Mar-2021 15:47

I agree, there is no such thing as a free lunch. I do however consider that public transport is something that should be provided without charge. I also believe the same should be true for all roads and council parking.

People park because they are going somewhere, be it working, shopping or attending events. Those activities usually have a cost associated with them, and a not inconsiderable amount of that cost goes in taxes. I think of these things as facilitating activities which otherwise make money.

Benoire

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#2678525 22-Mar-2021 15:48

Capex is loan funded where as opex is rates borne and topped up from the NLTF... pumping in to opex increases the price to users right now where as capex is long term loans, so the headline costs would be off if you looked at it in this way.

networkn

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#2678526 22-Mar-2021 15:49

So, again, I am not suggesting that making public transport free means magically it has no cost, my question is whether the cost is close enough offset by the reduction in ongoing infrastructure for cars, in maintenance of existing or expansion to accommodate additional because we seem to have more and more cars on the road each week.

Am I reading correctly that in Wellington its. 250m a year for public transport, what is the cost of maintaining existing or expanding infrastructure compared? I'd imagine surely, it's more than $250m a year?

Benoire

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#2678527 22-Mar-2021 15:50

SirHumphreyAppleby:

I agree, there is no such thing as a free lunch. I do however consider that public transport is something that should be provided without charge. I also believe the same should be true for all roads and council parking.

People park because they are going somewhere, be it working, shopping or attending events. Those activities usually have a cost associated with them, and a not inconsiderable amount of that cost goes in taxes. I think of these things as facilitating activities which otherwise make money.

Roads are heavily subsidised, and freight vehicles do approximately 60% of the total damage. At the moment, PT is the lowest of the total subsidies as it has less money spent on it compared to the road network which sucks up ~$400m per year in maintenance and renewals as well as the new capital programme to expand (this is in auckland).

Handle9

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#2678535 22-Mar-2021 15:52

There's no need to make public transport free and it would probably produce unexpected and undesirable outcomes.

The only thing required to get people to use public transport is to build the infrastructure. If it's relatively convenient, reliable and available it gets used.

The northern busway and britomart/rail electrification are both examples of public transport infrastructure that was poo pooed at the time of construction and have been hugely successful.

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