Formula 1 2022 Season Discussion

Forums › Sports › Formula 1 2022 Season Discussion

1 | ... | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | ... | 47

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2930893 17-Jun-2022 13:06

Jaxson:

Really two sides to this coin. Some manufactures have been able to make something work fairly well, others haven't. One in particular has a radically different design and performs the worst...

Being 'pinnacle' of motorsport, the current situation is crap. Cars bouncing down the straights make it all look a bit ridiculous. Active suspension may well need to come in to improve the situation if other teams can't make this work either. Unfortunate for likes of red bull who may lose their advantage if others gain the benefit of the active change to sort a problem they actually could work with.

This years cars still have issues around not being able to pass. They can follow much closer, but now we just have DRS trains waiting for the artificial DRS boost to get them ahead.

We still have issues of tyres not providing enough variability to spice up the race. Still no refuelling, so not a lot of strategy options currently exist, other than hoping for safety cars, Ferrari engines to let go or rain.

Bold 1

This is my point. Others have it too, but much less, its a whole new design, it takes time to bed in

Bold 2

Many tracks are narrow, so too easy to defend, wider tracks would allow less defence and 1.5 to 2.0 racing lines

Bold 3

Tyres last way too long. The concern was falling off the cliff (well dont do so many laps) so now the tyres last far too long. Either make the tyres have a lower life or mandate 2 pitstops?

Jaxson

8042 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2930914 17-Jun-2022 13:40

And the cars are ridickulously long and wide and heavy now, which to some degree makes the tracks narrower also.

I remember a while back reading how you need opportunities to make mistakes, and mistakes that slow you enough time to create an opportunity for others. We're really not seeing that now, other than launching off the start line for example. If you lockup in to a corner you risk your tyres but you don't lose enough for others to pounce, only in a wet race.

All the driver aides do make mistakes less likely to happen, but also those mistakes carry less risk/consequence as well.

Bung

6479 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2930920 17-Jun-2022 13:51

tdgeek: I was expecting stuff from lots of drivers. Odd or cynical that these drivers all have something in common in 2022? The other article said Mercedes got their way

So I dunno

Gazely was saying he needed a session with a physio after each time in car, his team mate Tsnoda (?) wasn't too concerned. Maybe some feel they need to take one for the team rather than speak up.

Benoire

2798 posts

Uber Geek

#2930921 17-Jun-2022 13:52

Jaxson:

And the cars are ridickulously long and wide and heavy now, which to some degree makes the tracks narrower also.

I remember a while back reading how you need opportunities to make mistakes, and mistakes that slow you enough time to create an opportunity for others. We're really not seeing that now, other than launching off the start line for example. If you lockup in to a corner you risk your tyres but you don't lose enough for others to pounce, only in a wet race.

All the driver aides do make mistakes less likely to happen, but also those mistakes carry less risk/consequence as well.

Compare the 2007 cars to now! Really though its hard to compare as the FIA have changed:

Refuelling to non-refueling = bigger tank
Hybrid engines = bigger engine and more complex radiator/turbo configuration
Halo = moncoque improvements
Safety Cell = increased in size over time to make the car safer
Tyres = they have got wider overall

I'm sure there is more but these changes add length and width to the car and have made the car more efficient, safer, faster (although at the expensive of overtaking until this season as aero dominated)... To drop in size substantially would involve rolling back quite a few of these items.

insane

3239 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2930925 17-Jun-2022 14:00

I read the FIAs directive slightly differently. In the near term it will largely impact Merc more and prevent the manufacturers from being able to try extract more performance at the expense of their drivers health by measuring wear blocks etc. This may spectacularly backfire on Lewis and George.

RB seem to have managed to create consistent ground effect at varying speeds/ride heights by using clever floor design.

It's the medium term solution that will be interesting. I wouldn't put it past the FIA to basically mandate a single floor design for all teams - Afterall the new regs were to improve wheel to wheel racing and the show overall. If that were the case I'd hope they are least allow the current season to finish before adjusting the regs.

mdf

3513 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2930929 17-Jun-2022 14:07

I agree with the FIA proposal to have some kind of driver safety limit for impacts - Gary Anderson has some good points here: https://the-race.com/formula-1/gary-anderson-where-the-fia-should-set-f1-cars-bouncing-limit/

Then it's up to teams how they meet those safety rules. To me, that's better than saying all cars need to have a minimum ride height of X, which could well punish the teams that have done a better job of the new rules, while not spending driver health on a few tenths of lap time.

That said, I don't want the season to be a one (or 1.5) horse race. If I had my sticky fingers on the levers of power, I would reintroduce in-season testing for all teams but it would have to be within the overall cost cap. As far as I am aware, the only reason it was banned in the first place was to control costs, so why do you need to do the same thing two ways? And part of the issue with porpoising was inability to simulate it in wind tunnels or computationally. This would give the teams that need it extra time to sort out their problems rather than having to run "experimental" setups during race weekend, while letting the teams that do have it sorted the ability to spend their cost cap dollars on other upgrades etc.

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2930942 17-Jun-2022 14:22

insane: I wouldn't put it past the FIA to basically mandate a single floor design for all teams - Afterall the new regs were to improve wheel to wheel racing and the show overall. If that were the case I'd hope they are least allow the current season to finish before adjusting the regs.

That makes a lot of sense. Get the standard specs sooner than later so 2023 cars can have the design update

Montreal is a street track is that bumpy too? Silverstone is smooth. Maybe they can tell teams they need to run 2022 at satisfactory bouncing safety levels, they can determine that in practice sessions. If too much bouncing in the race what then? Another issue is ride heights get sanitised at Silverstone, then teams complain they dont need the artificial help at that track and its slowing them down, what then?

As I mentioned earlier ground effect is old, really old, its not new. I just dont get why FIA has to alter the rules if teams go too far? Mercedes has admitted they went too far, so that means a tactical mistake causes a rule change? I hope the rule book is written in pencil...

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Bung

6479 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2930971 17-Jun-2022 15:12

Indycars are the other class heavily into ground effect and they do have a standard floor design.

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2930977 17-Jun-2022 15:23

Benoire:

Nope its going to break the Mercedes completely. They are running so low to the ground to get a consistent ground effect that raising it will simply stop their downforce generation and they'll be slower... There are a lot more street circuits this year and this is making the bump effect worse... its not just Mercedes that are being affected by the bumping but theirs is made worse by the low ride height to control the purpoising... Eiether lots of the drivers are complaining about the stiffness of the suspensions and in the impacts on street circuits.

Now had the FIA introduced active suspension then you may have had a case about FIA/Merc.

I see what your getting at now. I assumed ride heights would raise to a set level, thereby removing Mercs issues and also removing other cars successes. However, this is a car design/setup issue. If a team wishes to place drivers under strain, that needs to be called out. But they cant change the rule book unless the issue is across all cars. Its up to teams to work with what they have

Batman

Mad Scientist
29761 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2930990 17-Jun-2022 15:47

Benoire:

Nope its going to break the Mercedes completely. They are running so low to the ground to get a consistent ground effect that raising it will simply stop their downforce generation and they'll be slower... There are a lot more street circuits this year and this is making the bump effect worse... its not just Mercedes that are being affected by the bumping but theirs is made worse by the low ride height to control the purpoising... Eiether lots of the drivers are complaining about the stiffness of the suspensions and in the impacts on street circuits.

Now had the FIA introduced active suspension then you may have had a case about FIA/Merc.

internet says Ferrari are also f&^%ed

Benoire

2798 posts

Uber Geek

#2931005 17-Jun-2022 16:05

Batman:

internet says Ferrari are also f&^%ed

Looking at Sainz/Leclerks head movement I would say yes! They appear to be fast over one lap as they can drop low and generate huge downforce but I do think the Redbull is amazing this year and may end up being quickest in qualifying and the race as a result of this mandated position from the FIA as it could negate the ferarri advantage.

Bung

6479 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2931208 17-Jun-2022 21:07

insane: RB seem to have managed to create consistent ground effect at varying speeds/ride heights by using clever floor design.

I've seen one article that describes the "clever design" as ice skate like rubbing strips that hold the floor at a fixed minimum ride height and stop the floor flexing. Smells a bit like floor skirts that have been banned in the past.

nzkc

1571 posts

Uber Geek

#2931220 17-Jun-2022 22:14

If the changes come about as is being reported then I think the decision made is a reasonable compromise. We should not be punishing the teams that have solved the problem just to make teams that are suffering happy. I have to smile that Mercedes apparent politicking may have effectively backfired. They were trying the free (to them) resolution rather than developing the problem away or simply sacrificing performance raising the car. I absolutely get why Mercedes would do that.

As I say, I'm glad F1 have said "yep there seems to be a potential driver safety issue, but lets find a solution that does not punish the teams who are unaffected/less affected as much".

Benoire

2798 posts

Uber Geek

#2931222 17-Jun-2022 22:17

Yep it does appear that way. I've just read that Gasly has suggested that it won't make much of a difference to the running order, but I do expect to Redbull run away with this as they appear to have solved the issues nicely.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29761 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2931267 18-Jun-2022 07:38

this season is a waste of time.

just give max the title and race some V10s on 13"

1 | ... | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | ... | 47