Auckland's New Sports Stadium

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#3243706 2-Jun-2024 13:07

Starlith:

If the CBD thing is old fashioned just build another stadium in the middle of nowhere like Albany right? The best stadiums have easy access from mass transit options which is what a CBD focused stadium should have. Eden Park is actually pretty good but its not a proper rectangle stadium for Football or Rugby, it should have stayed as a proper cricket oval.

The Wellington Sevens was really just a carnival piss-up with the rugby being secondary, they moved it and the event is nowhere near as good as what it was and the rugby product is just the same.

The Eden Park make-over vid seems to suggest a return to a basic over shape within a wider rectangle, which is interesting, with additional seating moving the front rows closer for major events like we had for RWC 2011.

Give the residents the choice between more events in an enclosed stadium or brutalist apartment blocks (I think these own but that's sort of subjective) because that's effectively what they're getting the choice between.

mudguard

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#3243715 2-Jun-2024 13:40

Starlith:

If the CBD thing is old fashioned just build another stadium in the middle of nowhere like Albany right? The best stadiums have easy access from mass transit options which is what a CBD focused stadium should have. Eden Park is actually pretty good but its not a proper rectangle stadium for Football or Rugby, it should have stayed as a proper cricket oval.

Eden Park is a bit of pain to get to. Anywhere in the CBD is to be honest. Look what happens when those transiting home after work when there's an event on at Eden Park. People avoid the CBD for all kinds of reasons, traffic is a biggie.

And to be fair on Albany. When it was built it was reasonably empty. And still is very close to SH1 and another big thoroughfare. I don't genuinely have a foot in either camp. I like watching test cricket, but that's about it. And I'll travel to do so. I don't know what the solution is, but if it's tax/ratepayer money I just can't see it happening anymore.

I couldn't get an earlier date for Eden Park. But Albany 97 vs Eden Park 2005 ish

cddt

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#3243767 2-Jun-2024 13:55

mattwnz:
cddt:

The council (i.e. ratepayers) does not have money for something like this. We're up against the debt limits already, public transport is a shambles, traffic is congested, lack of investment in stormwater infrastructure caused thousands of homes to flood last year, the CBD has gone seriously downhill, etc.

There are many more things which should be addressed before investing in what is likely to be a white elephant money pit.

Wellington did it with a far smaller population via a stadium levy in the rates. So I am sure Auckland with the massive population could afford it using a levy. But building costs have increased by far more than inflation since the Wellington one was built and people also want other expensive things like a removable roof

The point of my post was that Auckland ratepayers would rather their rates and levies go towards fixing the basics before a stadium.

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Jase2985

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#3243776 2-Jun-2024 15:02

Albany would be fine if there was a train that serviced it that went to town, as the local area would get a lot more hospitality for before/after the game.

But thats not happening any time soon

GV27

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#3243780 2-Jun-2024 15:39

Jase2985:

Albany would be fine if there was a train that serviced it that went to town, as the local area would get a lot more hospitality for before/after the game.

But thats not happening any time soon

Albany is right next to one of the only real non-rail rapid transit corridors in the entire city and has been for over a decade. I don't think access to transport is the limiting factor.

Albany has a lot of open space that either hasn't been developed or is yet to be developed according to the masterplan and redesigned masterplan.

https://www.cgstudio.co.nz/projects/masterplanning/albany-centre/

It's a bit piecemeal and the slowdown in apartment builds over the last decade has done a real number on the level of building there. The plan might eventually be fulfilled but other developments in places like Hobsonville Point, Whenuapai and even Silverdale have popped in the interim and been successful. So there may not be the same appetite unless we start seeing huge increases in house prices or arrivals - all of which would change the equation for whether NHS is still the best use of that much land in the first place.

Starlith

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#3243801 2-Jun-2024 16:27

mudguard:

Eden Park is a bit of pain to get to. Anywhere in the CBD is to be honest. Look what happens when those transiting home after work when there's an event on at Eden Park. People avoid the CBD for all kinds of reasons, traffic is a biggie.

And to be fair on Albany. When it was built it was reasonably empty. And still is very close to SH1 and another big thoroughfare. I don't genuinely have a foot in either camp. I like watching test cricket, but that's about it. And I'll travel to do so. I don't know what the solution is, but if it's tax/ratepayer money I just can't see it happening anymore.

I couldn't get an earlier date for Eden Park. But Albany 97 vs Eden Park 2005 ish

Using private vehicles to a major sports venues seems really inefficient, I understand that sometimes there's no better way for everyone due to poor investment in public transit and mass transit options but the population the size of Auckland all on roads is ridiculous. I remember for RWC 2011 opening night every street in the north shore along east coast bays was at stand still. Building a major stadium catering to 1 transport mode is even worse. The best stadiums have multiple modes of transport options and the mass transit options are well catered for with massive platforms and train lengths either directly outside or atleast 15 minutes walk away. Eden Park would be much better served after the CRL but it still needs frequent service.

Jase2985

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#3243806 2-Jun-2024 17:55

GV27:

Jase2985:

Albany would be fine if there was a train that serviced it that went to town, as the local area would get a lot more hospitality for before/after the game.

But thats not happening any time soon

Albany is right next to one of the only real non-rail rapid transit corridors in the entire city and has been for over a decade. I don't think access to transport is the limiting factor.

Each 6 car train set can take 464 people seated, close to 600 when including standing passengers, a double-decker bus can take 86 with 15 standing. Trains dont get stuck in traffic, its nice there is a busway from town but its just not as efficient as trains. We want to be a work class city but we don't have world-class public transport to our facilities

Most people don't want to take a bus to a concert or a game, but would happily take a train.

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mattwnz

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#3243911 2-Jun-2024 23:17

cddt:

The point of my post was that Auckland ratepayers would rather their rates and levies go towards fixing the basics before a stadium.

TBH all councils should stick to the basics and be providing core services. But many have completely failed at this, hence the problem with infrastructure throughout the country. How many councils want to build various vanity projects such as town halls, libraires, events centres etc , but they borrow to do this, increasing rates significantly. A stadium is no different. But they don't get enough funding from central government, and rely solely on property rates, so not everyone is paying the fair share for services. . IMO we need to fund most of these things from general taxes, per person, so everyone is paying their fair share.

mattwnz

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#3243912 2-Jun-2024 23:24

GV27:

Starlith:

If the CBD thing is old fashioned just build another stadium in the middle of nowhere like Albany right? The best stadiums have easy access from mass transit options which is what a CBD focused stadium should have. Eden Park is actually pretty good but its not a proper rectangle stadium for Football or Rugby, it should have stayed as a proper cricket oval.

The Wellington Sevens was really just a carnival piss-up with the rugby being secondary, they moved it and the event is nowhere near as good as what it was and the rugby product is just the same.

The Eden Park make-over vid seems to suggest a return to a basic over shape within a wider rectangle, which is interesting, with additional seating moving the front rows closer for major events like we had for RWC 2011.

Give the residents the choice between more events in an enclosed stadium or brutalist apartment blocks (I think these own but that's sort of subjective) because that's effectively what they're getting the choice between.

I am pretty sure events will continue to be restricted at it. Wellington was in this situation 25 years ago and Athletic park, which was a pretty large stadium and nearly had a capacity of 60,000 at one point, ended up being turned into housing and I think a rest home complex. That land in Auckland is potentially very valuable, but will they get what it is worth to put towards a new stadium, or will developers buy it cheap. Now is perhaps not a good time to be selling land.

Asteros

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#3244497 4-Jun-2024 19:31

I seriously doubt any permutation of NZ professional sports teams can afford such an expensive stadium without resorting to public funding. Especially when the national game is in the midst of a civil war.

mattwnz

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#3244508 4-Jun-2024 20:31

Asteros:
I seriously doubt any permutation of NZ professional sports teams can afford such an expensive stadium without resorting to public funding. Especially when the national game is in the midst of a civil war.

Staff and players in some of the sports get paid large amounts and they have sponsors too.

Handle9

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#3244511 4-Jun-2024 20:41

mattwnz:
Asteros:
I seriously doubt any permutation of NZ professional sports teams can afford such an expensive stadium without resorting to public funding. Especially when the national game is in the midst of a civil war.

Staff and players in some of the sports get paid large amounts and they have sponsors too.

It’s likely a greater than 1 billion dollar project. No professional team or organisation has anywhere near the capacity to pay the capital cost. They can pay ground rentals but have zero chance to fund a ground themselves.

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#3244521 4-Jun-2024 21:26

mudguard:

grass banks, shade and capacity of about 10,000. Make watching cricket enjoyable.

It would take more than that to make watching Cricket enjoyable :)

Scott3

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#3244525 4-Jun-2024 21:44

Stadiums are notorious money losers for cities. They also tend not to improve urban form (i.e. they don't have enough events to support nearby hospo businesses), so you end up with vast windswept area's with appeal outside of event days.

Stadiums (other than a handfull world wide that are funded privately by a super wealthy, an sports passionate person) therefor need to be justified in a wider sense of making a city more appealing, and to add value to the residents by allowing events to be held for them and visitors to the city (which spend money in hospo) to enjoy.

Given how both local & central government are fairly cash strapped right now, I can't see a new stadium being bult.

Eden Park for all it's failing's, is about the right size for Aucklands major events (50k normally, 60k with RWC scaffold style extra end seating), and it's multi use.

A decent chunk of Eden park complaints come from it being a multi use stadium. I don't think Auckland can justify both a ~50k seat cricket stadium and a ~50k seat rugby stadium, so either one sport (likely cricket) looses out big time, or the replacement is compromised as well.

It's passable from a transport perspective. Didn't take an excessive time to get on the train even after attending a game in 60k configuration.

I think the event count limits for eden park should be lifted.

If we were going to spend money on a big venue, my pick would be something like the Philippine Arena. High capacity (but not the 55k of that venue), Optimized for stage shows but still able to host Basket-ball etc with the court on the floor & seats on the stage. But alas we have have spark areana where most of the crowed needs to sit twisted.

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On event transport, it is possible to lean on private car based transport to stadiums, but you need a heap of land, good road links, and people will still say the parking situation sucks.

Here is dodgers stadium 56,000 seats, 16,000 car / bus parks. Its all paid parking (US$27+ per game up to US$8k per season for the best preferred parking) They do run an event day bus route to the train station if you are worried about that ratio, and there are some offsite lots too.

~800m as the crow flys from the back of the furthest parking lot to the center of the diamond.

And reports of taking as long as 2.5 hours to get a car out after opening day.

r/oddlysatisfying - Dodger Stadium Parking Lot

Baypark is our NZ equivariant. 19,800 seats. Under the old road layout they did traffic management for large events and take over 1 lane of the two lanes of the adjacent 2 lane each way motorway style road. I think it was around 30mins for us to get out last time.

Mercury Baypark, Mt Maunganui - Eventfinda

Handle9

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#3244528 4-Jun-2024 21:54

NZC wants nothing to do with high capacity stadiums. They don’t make any economic sense for them. They want 5000-10000 seat stadiums for test cricket and a bit bigger for limited over cricket.

If a new stadium is built it should be rectangular and be able to stage concerts and events 365 days a year. It also needs to be equitably accessible from the west, south and north which means the CBD. That’s the only way it makes any sense at all.

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