Domestic NZ travel and potential for forced turnover of device logins?

Forums › Travel (planes, train, cruise) › Domestic NZ travel and potential for forced turnover of device logins?

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#2154071 3-Jan-2019 19:21

The level of paranoia in here is hilarious. Customs barely have enough staff to do their regular job at the border, never mind tying up huge amounts of staff time by targeting hoards of random travellers and inspecting phones/tablets/laptops just for the hell of it (which they can't do anyway).

xlinknz

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#2154072 3-Jan-2019 19:26

Ah the obsession with end user physical devices

If this becomes a issue, take no device overseas and buy an inexpensive one when you get there and access or sync to your fav cloud services then

I can't see customs or police any time soon at airports asking people for every cloud login one has

Dratsab

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#2154077 3-Jan-2019 19:33

xlinknz:
Ah the obsession with end user physical devices

If this becomes a issue, take no device overseas and buy an inexpensive one when you get there and access or sync to your fav cloud services then

I can't see customs or police any time soon at airports asking people for every cloud login one has

No need to drag police into this. They will get involved if there's an offence or offending to be dealt with or a risk to safety of any persons or property. They won't take an active role in general processes in a Customs Controlled Area.

Edit: added "or" between "persons" and "property"

networkn

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#2154078 3-Jan-2019 19:36

landcruiserguy:

If you don't agree with me please post your gmail and cloud passwords on this thread. Given that you don't have anything to hide then you should have no problems doing this. If you aren't wiling to do this then you agree with me that we should all have the right to privacy. Even if you don't believe in this right your customers and the people you communicate do so this should be respected.

I can't say how many times I have seen this argument used. It's so dumb. There is a HUGE difference between posting that information publically, and it being obtained by our elected officials and law enforcement officers.

xlinknz

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#2154079 3-Jan-2019 19:43

Dratsab:
xlinknz:

Ah the obsession with end user physical devices

If this becomes a issue, take no device overseas and buy an inexpensive one when you get there and access or sync to your fav cloud services then

I can't see customs or police any time soon at airports asking people for every cloud login one has

No need to drag police into this. They will get involved if there's an offence or offending to be dealt with or a risk to safety of any persons property. They won't take an active role in general processes in a Customs Controlled Area.

Fair and good comment :)

My point was that any legitimate security interest constrained to the physical device is well limited

Linuxluver

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#2154257 4-Jan-2019 10:42

mudguard:
sross:

mudguard: That can't be correct. We had a work memo awhile ago telling us to avoid travelling through any areas that request it while we have work phones and laptops with us.

for domestic?

No, for international. I personally do very little international travel for work. However we are under instruction to reroute travel that requires access to devices.
This was around the time the US were talking about it rather than anything recently.

The rationale there is that in many places you can't be sure the access isn't to allow the local government in that country to "acquire" business information and intellectual property using national security as the excuse.

The US has done this in the past. But they think they are the good guys, so it's OK.

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BlinkyBill

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#2154327 4-Jan-2019 13:02

Linuxluver:
mudguard:
sross:

mudguard: That can't be correct. We had a work memo awhile ago telling us to avoid travelling through any areas that request it while we have work phones and laptops with us.

for domestic?

No, for international. I personally do very little international travel for work. However we are under instruction to reroute travel that requires access to devices.
This was around the time the US were talking about it rather than anything recently.

The rationale there is that in many places you can't be sure the access isn't to allow the local government in that country to "acquire" business information and intellectual property using national security as the excuse.

The US has done this in the past. But they think they are the good guys, so it's OK.

I would be interested in a citation to support this assertion.

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amiga500

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#2154375 4-Jan-2019 13:42

Let's say you were asked to provide passwords to all your cloud accounts that are not on your cheap 'travel' phone. If you use a password manager on your devices left at home, you could say quite honestly that because of the password manager you simply have no recall of the passwords at all.

Kyanar

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#2154841 5-Jan-2019 13:12

sbiddle:

The fact you travel internationally and your work is so secretive that this is a concern to you along with the fact your employer you should have proper documented processes in place for dealing with such a scenario really concerns me. You should be discussing this with your employer ASAP.

Indeed. Even the US Government has policies in place for when employees carry their work devices through borders where inspection by customs officials may occur (and, for what it's worth, the process is not "refuse the search" it is "permit the search, and contact information security to notify of the search so that appropriate measures can be taken if necessary").

If the information is that sensitive (i.e. national security) it should never cross borders outside of a diplomatic bag anyway, which Customs would not inspect or seize.

amiga500:

Let's say you were asked to provide passwords to all your cloud accounts that are not on your cheap 'travel' phone. If you use a password manager on your devices left at home, you could say quite honestly that because of the password manager you simply have no recall of the passwords at all.

Why is everyone harping on about cloud accounts? They are nothing to do with this topic, as Customs have explicitly stated that they will not inspect cloud accounts, and the legislation does not empower them to. Yet people continue banging on about something that is both explicitly stated by policy and legislation to be out of scope.

Kyanar

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#2154843 5-Jan-2019 13:17

BlinkyBill:
Linuxluver:

The rationale there is that in many places you can't be sure the access isn't to allow the local government in that country to "acquire" business information and intellectual property using national security as the excuse.

The US has done this in the past. But they think they are the good guys, so it's OK.

I would be interested in a citation to support this assertion.

You won't find one, as it never happened.

BlinkyBill

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#2154945 5-Jan-2019 16:25

Kyanar:
BlinkyBill:
Linuxluver:

The rationale there is that in many places you can't be sure the access isn't to allow the local government in that country to "acquire" business information and intellectual property using national security as the excuse.

The US has done this in the past. But they think they are the good guys, so it's OK.

I would be interested in a citation to support this assertion.

You won't find one, as it never happened.

Of course not, but I’m not 100% infallible, so offered the opportunity. The silence speaks volumes.

MurrayM

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#2155605 7-Jan-2019 09:52

networkn:

landcruiserguy:

If you don't agree with me please post your gmail and cloud passwords on this thread. Given that you don't have anything to hide then you should have no problems doing this. If you aren't wiling to do this then you agree with me that we should all have the right to privacy. Even if you don't believe in this right your customers and the people you communicate do so this should be respected.

I can't say how many times I have seen this argument used. It's so dumb. There is a HUGE difference between posting that information publically, and it being obtained by our elected officials and law enforcement officers.

Not only that, but if I post my Gmail password here then that would allow people to send emails from my account, which would esentially be identity theft and could potentially be disastrous for me. I'd have no problem with revealing the contents of any emails sitting in my Gmail account (except for those that might allow identity theft). So yes, the whole "post your Gmail login details if you have nothing to hide" arguement is silly.

irongarment

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#2155786 7-Jan-2019 13:55

You guys don't get it. There are two issues here:

1) If Customs are too busy to implement this (i.e. we don't have to worry about it) then why have the law? If we have the law on the books it will be abused.

2) Nothing to hide nothing to fear. It seems that people don't want to post their Gmail passwords here. Why is that? You have nothing to hide right? The idea that you don't want to give your password to a random stranger but you will to a Customs officer seems odd. Unless of course in the entire history of humanity there has never been a bent official.

Finally, even if you do trust whoever it is to apply the law justly, and slurp up all your data, what happens when the database it is stored in is compromised? (That's when, not if). Or, what happens when we get a new government who'd like to see what everyone has been up to? Far safer (from an individual's point of view) to not collect the data in the first place.

If anyone does support this, what precisely do you think it is protecting us from? (Don't say terrorists, that's pathetic).

clevedon

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#2155876 7-Jan-2019 15:44

irongarment: You guys don't get it. There are two issues here:

1) If Customs are too busy to implement this (i.e. we don't have to worry about it) then why have the law? If we have the law on the books it will be abused.

2) Nothing to hide nothing to fear. It seems that people don't want to post their Gmail passwords here. Why is that? You have nothing to hide right? The idea that you don't want to give your password to a random stranger but you will to a Customs officer seems odd. Unless of course in the entire history of humanity there has never been a bent official.

Finally, even if you do trust whoever it is to apply the law justly, and slurp up all your data, what happens when the database it is stored in is compromised? (That's when, not if). Or, what happens when we get a new government who'd like to see what everyone has been up to? Far safer (from an individual's point of view) to not collect the data in the first place.

If anyone does support this, what precisely do you think it is protecting us from? (Don't say terrorists, that's pathetic).

Illegal aliens, peadophiles, fraudsters, sex traffickers/offenders etc etc.

Oh, and terrorists.

Kyanar

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#2156729 9-Jan-2019 07:21

irongarment: 2) Nothing to hide nothing to fear. It seems that people don't want to post their Gmail passwords here. Why is that? You have nothing to hide right? The idea that you don't want to give your password to a random stranger but you will to a Customs officer seems odd. Unless of course in the entire history of humanity there has never been a bent official.

What's your Gmail password got to do with anything? You're again banging on about an internet service account, which is both out of scope for this law, and outside Customs policy for device inspection. It's got nothing to do with this at all, apart from being a convenient strawman for you.

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