Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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#2720049 6-Jun-2021 22:21

Handle9:

This was pioneered by the Key government. They effectively stopped answering to the media more than 10 years ago.

They also consistently abused the OIA and the "no surprises" policy. The Ardern government is just more of the same. Social media has given them even less reason to talk to the media.

No argument from me about who might have started it. My point was this government has taken it to another level altogeter.

The increase in press secretaries and ministry PR people under this government is pretty staggering if the figures in that article are correct.

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Fred99

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#2720096 7-Jun-2021 10:27

Technofreak:

No argument from me about who might have started it. My point was this government has taken it to another level altogeter.

The increase in press secretaries and ministry PR people under this government is pretty staggering if the figures in that article are correct.

And the next government will take it to another level again.

Anybody can make an OIA request. I have, then followed up lack of timely response with a complaint to the Ombudsman's office, when I got a response the organisation redacted content that shouldn't have been, I challenged that (copying request to the Ombudsman's case file #), some idiot at the organisation misunderstood and sent me an email when I was on the phone waiting with the completely unredacted file with names and contact details etc intact. Whoops.

There are legitimate reasons to include personal and confidential information on file, there are legitimate reasons to redact that. The "office help staff" really aren't the right people to sift through masses of documentation to decide what should and what shouldn't be released, if you do it "right" you need people who know how what they're doing complies with the OIA, the exclusions, and how that relates to other legislation. Default position for the organisation is probably "if in doubt - blank it out" - because the consequences of releasing information that should have been redacted could be dire.

The system is broken but there's no easy fix that wouldn't result in making access to information held by government agencies even harder to access.

Knock yourself out: https://fyi.org.nz/

Between now and lunchtime you could probably generate many months of work for govt departments and agencies.. For every response where there's stuff redacted, there's a conspiracy theory waiting to be written.

Technofreak

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#2720110 7-Jun-2021 11:23

Fred99:

And the next government will take it to another level again.

Anybody can make an OIA request. I have, then followed up lack of timely response with a complaint to the Ombudsman's office, when I got a response the organisation redacted content that shouldn't have been, I challenged that (copying request to the Ombudsman's case file #), some idiot at the organisation misunderstood and sent me an email when I was on the phone waiting with the completely unredacted file with names and contact details etc intact. Whoops.

There are legitimate reasons to include personal and confidential information on file, there are legitimate reasons to redact that. The "office help staff" really aren't the right people to sift through masses of documentation to decide what should and what shouldn't be released, if you do it "right" you need people who know how what they're doing complies with the OIA, the exclusions, and how that relates to other legislation. Default position for the organisation is probably "if in doubt - blank it out" - because the consequences of releasing information that should have been redacted could be dire.

The system is broken but there's no easy fix that wouldn't result in making access to information held by government agencies even harder to access.

Knock yourself out: https://fyi.org.nz/

Between now and lunchtime you could probably generate many months of work for govt departments and agencies.. For every response where there's stuff redacted, there's a conspiracy theory waiting to be written.

I agree with your comments about the OIA. There is a no political desire to fix the problem because fixing the OIA creates problems politicians would rather not have. However once again you missed the point. You missed the point regarding the discussion about the geo-political situation and now you missed that I wasn't talking about the OIA when I said this government has taken it to another level again.

I wasn't talking about the OIA. I was talking about how this government is not being open and transparent with the way they control their PR and press conferences. I was also taking issue with the staggering growth in the numbers of ministerial press secretaries and departmental spin doctors. This is what I was getting at when I said the government has taken it to another level again.

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Fred99

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#2720116 7-Jun-2021 11:45

Technofreak:

I wasn't talking about the OIA. I was talking about how this government is not being open and transparent with the way they control their PR and press conferences. I was also taking issue with the staggering growth in the numbers of ministerial press secretaries and departmental spin doctors. This is what I was getting at when I said the government has taken it to another level again.

There are different ways of looking at that too. If there were fewer, then it could be argued that it would be even more difficult to access information.

It's not something unique to government.

Sorry - I don't "get" what you're saying about the given reason to decline several requests for interview. If the Minister said she didn't want to face several reporters at once, that seems quite credible - if disappointing to some.

GV27

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#2728197 14-Jun-2021 07:44

Fred99:

If the Minister said she didn't want to face several reporters at once, that seems quite credible - if disappointing to some.

Stand-ups in parliament corridors are one of the most common ways for the media to access MPs. Being asked questions by more than one person at the same time is not something MPs are new to, let alone Ministers, let alone senior Ministers.

GV27

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#2728202 14-Jun-2021 08:21

Confirmation, it seems, from an NZTA/AT planning group that Light Rail won't happen in West Auckland until at least 2030.

This is now out of the ATAP II-promised 'Decade One' priority window and with no firm confirmations that it will even happen in Decade Two, given that 2030 is two years into Decade Two.

Not withstanding, residents in West Auckland will continue to be charged a regional fuel tax while the rapid transit promised by Labour to get elected in 2017 just quietly vapourises, and will also now incur additional fees to register cars that they have no realistic alternatives to using unless they can afford EVs. Meanwhile, added housing development will mean this continues to get worse, while Central Auckland and the inner North Shore get a brand new cycling bridge for hundreds of millions of dollars.

There has been close to zero media interest in the constant winding back of the NW route, compared to Melling where Chris Bishop has kept a blow-torch on Labour to deliver an upgrade.

Fred99

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#2728256 14-Jun-2021 08:59

Curse the idiots who want to make a movie about the mosque genocide.
It's a terrible idea on every level.

Curse the idiot who leads the ACT party in NZ now too. He's behaving like a US Republican - a disingenuous cynical gun-toting freedom-crying pig-ignorant misanthropic selfish prat.

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Technofreak

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#2728284 14-Jun-2021 10:18

Fred99:

Technofreak:

I wasn't talking about the OIA. I was talking about how this government is not being open and transparent with the way they control their PR and press conferences. I was also taking issue with the staggering growth in the numbers of ministerial press secretaries and departmental spin doctors. This is what I was getting at when I said the government has taken it to another level again.

There are different ways of looking at that too. If there were fewer, then it could be argued that it would be even more difficult to access information.

Using the argument of having less PR people might mean it's more difficult to access information should also mean that by having more PR people access should be easier. Based on the growth in PR jobs within this government, access to information should be twice as easy as it was about 4 years ago. We all know that hasn't happened. All those extra PR people are being used to create a mirage around the current government.

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Rikkitic

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#2728292 14-Jun-2021 10:27

Technofreak:

Using the argument of having less PR people might mean it's more difficult to access information should also mean that by having more PR people access should be easier. Based on the growth in PR jobs within this government, access to information should be twice as easy as it was about 4 years ago. We all know that hasn't happened. All those extra PR people are being used to create a mirage around the current government.

Mirage or not, I still don't see anything better on the horizon. I really wish this government would actually do something, but I will continue to vote for them until something better comes along. National isn't better, and ACT sure the hell isn't.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Fred99

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#2728294 14-Jun-2021 10:31

Technofreak:

We all know that hasn't happened.

You'd be better to speak for yourself. Saying "we" is an attempt to be a spokesperson for everybody, and "all know" suggests your opinion is fact.

"I think that hasn't happened".

"Lots of people think that hasn't happened"

"Lots of people know that hasn't happened"

"We all know that hasn't happened"

See what you're doing?

Technofreak

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#2728299 14-Jun-2021 10:38

The promise of no more taxes took another hit with yesterdays "Clean Air Car Scheme" announcement. The government will will raise more money from the levies (taxes) than it pays out to purchasers of low emission vehicles.

When you call it a levy it tends to disguise the fact it's a tax.

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Fred99

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#2728304 14-Jun-2021 10:46

Technofreak:

The government will will raise more money from the levies (taxes) than it pays out to purchasers of low emission vehicles.

Presumably only if the levy doesn't change buying patterns - when the purpose of the levy is to bring about change to the buying pattern.

Technofreak

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#2728312 14-Jun-2021 10:59

Fred99:

Technofreak:

The government will will raise more money from the levies (taxes) than it pays out to purchasers of low emission vehicles.

Presumably only if the levy doesn't change buying patterns - when the purpose of the levy is to bring about change to the buying pattern.

For a good many people their buying patterns cannot change as there is no viable alternative. For those that have an alternative they were already making changes to their buying patterns before this tax came along. It will be interesting to see what if any noticeable change takes place in buying habits.

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Fred99

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#2728443 14-Jun-2021 11:47

Technofreak:

For a good many people their buying patterns cannot change as there is no viable alternative. For those that have an alternative they were already making changes to their buying patterns before this tax came along. It will be interesting to see what if any noticeable change takes place in buying habits.

Well I can't see a $3k levy on a new ICE RV/Ute making much difference to those buyers, but I can see a subsidy on a small EVs having a positive effect, even if it takes a while to gain momentum.

Handle9

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#2728525 14-Jun-2021 14:11

Technofreak:
Fred99:

Presumably only if the levy doesn't change buying patterns - when the purpose of the levy is to bring about change to the buying pattern.

For a good many people their buying patterns cannot change as there is no viable alternative. For those that have an alternative they were already making changes to their buying patterns before this tax came along. It will be interesting to see what if any noticeable change takes place in buying habits.

For most people it's a choice. There is a preponderance of Ute's with shiny trays and pristine tow bars.

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