Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

1 | ... | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | ... | 60

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3030506 1-Feb-2023 18:39

johno1234: Apparently despite climate change being our “nuclear issue” votes are more important. I can understand this.

No respite for farmers though. The government will continue to impose climate expense on them. Many of us have an alternative to the car. Farmers have none and are simply being made to be less competitive against overseas producers with higher carbon emissions.

I come from a farm, I cannot argue against that. But in this thread the current Govt extends the fuel subsidy. I.e. the Government paying some of our petrol fill up, yet thats a problem. We have high priced eggs, another issue, despite its been 10 years in the making. If whoever took on climate change, my god our economy is suffering. If they took on the economy, my god climate change is suffering. Its just a banter-fest

IIRC its been stated that climate change matters, but in the short of short terms Kiwis are suffering due to inflation. So a short term benefit makes sense.

ockel

2031 posts

Uber Geek

#3030565 1-Feb-2023 21:56

tdgeek:

johno1234: Apparently despite climate change being our “nuclear issue” votes are more important. I can understand this.

No respite for farmers though. The government will continue to impose climate expense on them. Many of us have an alternative to the car. Farmers have none and are simply being made to be less competitive against overseas producers with higher carbon emissions.

I come from a farm, I cannot argue against that. But in this thread the current Govt extends the fuel subsidy. I.e. the Government paying some of our petrol fill up, yet thats a problem. We have high priced eggs, another issue, despite its been 10 years in the making. If whoever took on climate change, my god our economy is suffering. If they took on the economy, my god climate change is suffering. Its just a banter-fest

IIRC its been stated that climate change matters, but in the short of short terms Kiwis are suffering due to inflation. So a short term benefit makes sense.

So playing devils advocate, when is it fine to relax that short-term benefit and focus on climate change at the expense of the economy? When households arent suffering due to inflation? Only when its 1-3%? Or when economic growth is a suitable (undefined) level? Or when hospital waiting lists arent out of control (assuming peoples health is more important than the climate)?

You're saying that if the Government is okay to sacrifice the climate in favour of something else in the short term its okay? If the Opposition suggests policies that it thinks are more important than climate, its okay? Recall that the former PM called climate change "my generations nuclear free moment'. Seems like it is deemed pretty important and yet discarded so quickly. If we had invited nuckear warships back into our harbours would we have been so forgiving of the Govt of the day?

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

quickymart

13924 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#3030573 1-Feb-2023 22:22

JPNZ:

quickymart:

I think it's pretty good, I like the discounted public transport.

Its a pity nobody else does, Michael Wood was quoted in december that it reduced car trips by 3% to 3.5%. Not a very good return for the $160 million it costs

It works for me and actually for a lot of other people I know who take the bus (in Auckland, at least) - certainly not "nobody else".

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3030588 2-Feb-2023 06:48

ockel:

So playing devils advocate, when is it fine to relax that short-term benefit and focus on climate change at the expense of the economy? When households arent suffering due to inflation? Only when its 1-3%? Or when economic growth is a suitable (undefined) level? Or when hospital waiting lists arent out of control (assuming peoples health is more important than the climate)?

You're saying that if the Government is okay to sacrifice the climate in favour of something else in the short term its okay? If the Opposition suggests policies that it thinks are more important than climate, its okay? Recall that the former PM called climate change "my generations nuclear free moment'. Seems like it is deemed pretty important and yet discarded so quickly. If we had invited nuckear warships back into our harbours would we have been so forgiving of the Govt of the day?

You are stating economy I am stating inflation that many citizens are struggling with, very different things. Currently the Government subsidises petrol fills, thats not anti supporting climate change its supporting people. Short term.

" okay to sacrifice the climate in favour of something else in the short term its okay?" Your stretching this too far. Basically saying that high inflation is just something else. Im not seeing any major advances combating climate change being shelved lately.

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#3030662 2-Feb-2023 08:32

The transit subsidy is great but it provides little relief for people who live in areas that don't have access to the same levels of service as other places. I'll let people make their own assumptions about where those places might be and what areas tend to have comparatively better levels of service than others.

The solution, is of course, to actually build transit networks, but the government has so far proven to have little to no capability of doing so. What's worse in the current malaise of Auckland Light Rail, now bloated and beyond the spec of what was initially promoted at many times the original policy cost, has been rewarded with a portfolio specifically relating to matters regarding Auckland.

This is, in fact, the second instance of a Labour minister who has failed to deliver any progress on rapid transit in Auckland getting promoted. Twyford found himself with a higher list ranking in 2020, presumably because they felt the mess he'd made of Light Rail put his Te Atatu electorate (struggling to cope with the blowout in traffic along SH16 which was supposedly in dire need of rapid transit in the initial labour policy) at risk to Alfred Ngaro. Luckily for Twyford, Ngaro proved to be even more of a liability to National than Twyford was to Labour.

So the fuel tax is a necessary evil as not only can the government not get anything done, but it's so warped in terms of the value of actually delivering projects that not delivering them gets you promoted. Meanwhile, the people who live in the areas with good public transport just get stuck driving and paying a regional fuel tax that no other part of the country is slugged with.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3030665 2-Feb-2023 08:37

October will sort all that

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#3030675 2-Feb-2023 09:07

tdgeek:

October will sort all that

Yes. I'm torn between National's explicit policy of not doing anything vs. Labour's policy of talking about stuff but never actually building it.

Some here would have you convinced that there is some sort of existential difference or threat in the former but the reality is the outcomes are the same, they just come with less finger-wagging.

Ironically, I would have no problem voting for the Nats if the Greens did not turn themselves into a proxy Labour party by refusing to enter into coalitions with them. I can see many advantages in a Blue/Green government, but I also think being able to fly would come in handy sometimes. Both are about as likely.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3030682 2-Feb-2023 09:16

GV27:

Yes. I'm torn between National's explicit policy of not doing anything vs. Labour's policy of talking about stuff but never actually building it.

Some here would have you convinced that there is some sort of existential difference or threat in the former but the reality is the outcomes are the same, they just come with less finger-wagging.

Ironically, I would have no problem voting for the Nats if the Greens did not turn themselves into a proxy Labour party by refusing to enter into coalitions with them. I can see many advantages in a Blue/Green government, but I also think being able to fly would come in handy sometimes. Both are about as likely.

All I can say is see what Hipkins says he will do and what Luxon says what he will do. Both are unproven, so look at them both as a clean slate. Both parties are younger now, less experienced, but at least both parties have had the old guard, boys club, remove themselves. Younger MP's in todays world for a change

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3030685 2-Feb-2023 09:20

GV27:

tdgeek:

October will sort all that

Yes. I'm torn between National's explicit policy of not doing anything vs. Labour's policy of talking about stuff but never actually building it.

Some here would have you convinced that there is some sort of existential difference or threat in the former but the reality is the outcomes are the same, they just come with less finger-wagging.

Ironically, I would have no problem voting for the Nats if the Greens did not turn themselves into a proxy Labour party by refusing to enter into coalitions with them. I can see many advantages in a Blue/Green government, but I also think being able to fly would come in handy sometimes. Both are about as likely.

Same goes for the Te Pati Maori who are effectively a property rights based party which aligns with National in that regard. Green policy on emissions is fundamentally user-pays which also aligns more with National than Labour. However both are ideologically bound to oppose them regardless.

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3030866 2-Feb-2023 11:49

tdgeek:

All I can say is see what Hipkins says he will do and what Luxon says what he will do. Both are unproven, so look at them both as a clean slate. Both parties are younger now, less experienced, but at least both parties have had the old guard, boys club, remove themselves. Younger MP's in todays world for a change

This makes no sense. If you believe that Hipkins will solve all of Labours non-delivery over promise under deliver problems, then it was Jacinda all along who was the problem and all the criticism she has worn has been entirely justified, or this is just putting (and excuse the crude anaology as I can't think of another this second) lipstick on a pig.

In reality, I think Hipkins will probably bring a reset to Labour and they may perform better under him, but we have gone backwards under Labour and I don't feel we should reward that (and no I am not just talking inflation etc).

National are an unknown, Labour are the known quantity. Do people want more of the same?

Do I believe National in October is going to fix everything? Nope, definitely not, some stuff is out of our control, but do I believe National will deliver (most of) what they promise (even if they promise very little), more than likely. The problem is, people don't want less promises delivered, they want to be fed a fantasy with no hope of ever being delivered.

I believe the people wanted a National /NZF government in 2017, not everyone obviously, but Winston wanted to stick it to National really really badly, which he did. He set NZ back 10-15 years in my view. We lost a lot of experience, and momentum (whether you agree with the direction or not) and if there is another Government change in October (which I am hardly certain of), it will happen again. It will take time for the New Government to settle in, and for experience to build to the same level.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3030874 2-Feb-2023 12:07

networkn:

National are an unknown, Labour are the known quantity. Do people want more of the same?

You also stated "then it was Jacinda all along who was the problem"

If she was the core issue, she is gone, so in all fairness both parties are now unknowns

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3030883 2-Feb-2023 12:27

tdgeek:

If she was the core issue, she is gone, so in all fairness both parties are now unknowns

We both know she wasn't the only problem. In reality, Hipkins will cut a bunch of fantasy policies, so they can at least deliver a little of what they have promised, but the overarching problems will remain. At their core the main issue is Ministers who are under qualified, and under experienced to manage the country in my view. There seems to be a fair bit of lack of common sense in the caucus. Announcing a 600M bike bridge for example, it defies belief someone who viewed that policy inside of caucas didn't say 'uh guys, this isn't deliverable and makes no sense'.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3030890 2-Feb-2023 12:50

networkn:

We both know she wasn't the only problem. In reality, Hipkins will cut a bunch of fantasy policies, so they can at least deliver a little of what they have promised, but the overarching problems will remain. At their core the main issue is Ministers who are under qualified, and under experienced to manage the country in my view. There seems to be a fair bit of lack of common sense in the caucus. Announcing a 600M bike bridge for example, it defies belief someone who viewed that policy inside of caucas didn't say 'uh guys, this isn't deliverable and makes no sense'.

If Hipkins steps out with fantasy policies, its over, end of story. If the over reaching fantasy policies for the previous PM have occured, that was her downfall and she is gone. Its a reset

It all depends if the issues were both her and most of her MP's. Both parties now have younger and less experienced MP's. To your main point, if Caucus was the driving force behind these polices, and less the PM, that's a different matter. In my view she pushed forward, of course the Caucus are obligated to support them. Hipkins is quite different, its wait and see

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3030906 2-Feb-2023 13:39

networkn:

tdgeek:

All I can say is see what Hipkins says he will do and what Luxon says what he will do. Both are unproven, so look at them both as a clean slate. Both parties are younger now, less experienced, but at least both parties have had the old guard, boys club, remove themselves. Younger MP's in todays world for a change

This makes no sense. If you believe that Hipkins will solve all of Labours non-delivery over promise under deliver problems, then it was Jacinda all along who was the problem and all the criticism she has worn has been entirely justified, or this is just putting (and excuse the crude anaology as I can't think of another this second) lipstick on a pig.

In reality, I think Hipkins will probably bring a reset to Labour and they may perform better under him, but we have gone backwards under Labour and I don't feel we should reward that (and no I am not just talking inflation etc).

National are an unknown, Labour are the known quantity. Do people want more of the same?

Do I believe National in October is going to fix everything? Nope, definitely not, some stuff is out of our control, but do I believe National will deliver (most of) what they promise (even if they promise very little), more than likely. The problem is, people don't want less promises delivered, they want to be fed a fantasy with no hope of ever being delivered.

I believe the people wanted a National /NZF government in 2017, not everyone obviously, but Winston wanted to stick it to National really really badly, which he did. He set NZ back 10-15 years in my view. We lost a lot of experience, and momentum (whether you agree with the direction or not) and if there is another Government change in October (which I am hardly certain of), it will happen again. It will take time for the New Government to settle in, and for experience to build to the same level.

I do hope we can stop pouring money into things that we'll never get.

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3030908 2-Feb-2023 13:43

networkn:

tdgeek:

If she was the core issue, she is gone, so in all fairness both parties are now unknowns

We both know she wasn't the only problem. In reality, Hipkins will cut a bunch of fantasy policies, so they can at least deliver a little of what they have promised, but the overarching problems will remain. At their core the main issue is Ministers who are under qualified, and under experienced to manage the country in my view. There seems to be a fair bit of lack of common sense in the caucus. Announcing a 600M bike bridge for example, it defies belief someone who viewed that policy inside of caucas didn't say 'uh guys, this isn't deliverable and makes no sense'.

I'd put a $15billion (and counting) tunneled Auckland light rail project into the same category as the cycle bridge. Common factor is one M.Wood, one of the promoted cabinet ministers.

1 | ... | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | ... | 60