Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3250858 19-Jun-2024 15:53

sir1963:

It's not the same as it was for my grandparents. Then again they also did not have an employer matching contributions $ for $

You are right. They could contribute zero and still get full super. Pretty sure if you contribute zero to Kiwisaver you get the kick start and that's it?

sir1963:

I wonder if there will be a generation who will view YOUR KiwiSaver as "greed" when theirs is so much smaller and think they are entitled to a share of it ?

Ah I'm not sure why you are directing this at me. I was explaining why the UBI couldn't work without finding a way to pay for it. I don't think comparisons to Superannuation in it's current form really compares to Kiwisaver. Superannuation has always been funded by current and future taxpayers. The fundamental dilemma we have as a country is this will become seriously disproportionate. I think Treasury were forecasting in 2050 to have 1 in 4 retirees to every worker instead of the 1 in 8 we have at present. I shudder to think of the personal tax rate required to fund that.

As for housing, well that's in the too hard basket. Leaving rates high will probably slow things down, however whether that by itself will reduce the actual income to loan ratio, I think that will take generations.

sir1963

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#3250863 19-Jun-2024 16:28

mudguard:

Ah I'm not sure why you are directing this at me. I was explaining why the UBI couldn't work without finding a way to pay for it. I don't think comparisons to Superannuation in it's current form really compares to Kiwisaver. Superannuation has always been funded by current and future taxpayers. The fundamental dilemma we have as a country is this will become seriously disproportionate. I think Treasury were forecasting in 2050 to have 1 in 4 retirees to every worker instead of the 1 in 8 we have at present. I shudder to think of the personal tax rate required to fund that.

As for housing, well that's in the too hard basket. Leaving rates high will probably slow things down, however whether that by itself will reduce the actual income to loan ratio, I think that will take generations.

Around 2050 there will be a housing collapse as the retired also start dying in greater numbers.

The PROBLEM is lack of income, so this stupid approach of "farming is the backbone of NZ" is going to kill us financially.

We have teachers who are incompetent in STEM, Tertiary education is dumping STEM, it's too expensive to teach and is underfunded. Tertiary education is dumping face to face teaching and going online to reduce costs ( and lowering standards while they are at it).

Pay for STEM is low, you can make far better money being a nurse than you can as an academic teaching the nurses !

We build roads instead of rail even knowing the resources for individual travel/transport are going to be winding down

We allow our growth companies to be sold off cheaply overseas, taking skills, IP, industry with it

Kids value being an "influencer" more highly than having a skilled job

Another 100 F&P healthcares (hight tech, high profit) businesses and we would have a better economy than Australia ... but lets make milk powder ...

sir1963

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#3250865 19-Jun-2024 16:34

BTW, we could probably make BETTER money by closing Tiwai smelter and putting in a huge AI data centre

Heaps of cheap power, temperature is cooler making thermal control cheaper (you could probably duct the heat to Invercargill during the winder as free heating...)

It gives us a big leg up in tech/AI as well as providing good paying jobs and a valuable research resource.

And the bigger danger is that AI may end up putting a lot of younger low skilled people out of jobs exacerbating the issues with an aging population.

freitasm

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#3250918 19-Jun-2024 18:39

Thank you, Luxon

The Government is saving $56 million over five years by dumping a programme topping up the pay of disabled workers to the minimum wage.

That could see 900-plus workers - mostly with intellectual disabilities - continue to be paid as low as $2 an hour, but the Government says it’s better than not working at all.

The previous Labour Government had planned to end the exemption that allowed employers to pay disabled people below the minimum wage. Budget 2023 allocated $37.3m over four years to top up their pay to the minimum wage (currently $23.15 an hour) - from next year.

But that was axed in Budget 2024, boosting the Government’s coffers by $11.34m in the coming year, and $56.345m over five years.

Sepuloni also grilled Upston about the 9000 beneficiaries who would be earning less after Budget 2024, but Upston said that was unexpected and she hadn’t received any advice on it.

There have been 14,000 more people on the Jobseeker benefit in the past six months despite the Government wanting to have 50,000 fewer Jobseeker beneficiaries by 2030.

But there was also a drop in the number of hardship grants over that period, despite the Salvation Army reporting people showing up for food parcels who have been declined a hardship grant.

Govt scraps pay top-up; 900-plus disabled workers miss out on minimum wage - NZ Herald

SaltyNZ

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#3250928 19-Jun-2024 19:20

freitasm:

Thank you, Luxon

Totally worth it for my $20 a week tax cut.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

tdgeek

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#3250948 19-Jun-2024 20:20

SaltyNZ:

freitasm:

Thank you, Luxon

Totally worth it for my $20 a week tax cut.

1 July? Livin' the Dream

Sad really, we talk about all the sectors that need help, yet we fire many employees to give tax cuts that are a free takeaway, or if you are low paid and single, even less, or if you are comfortable, dont notice it, apart from Govt employees . Is it an easy fix? No. But no tax cuts, and invest in our many sectors that need it, then revisit it when we CAN afford it

quickymart

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#3250984 19-Jun-2024 22:49

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/loose-lipped-apprentice-pm-fallout-from-christopher-luxons-c-listers-clanger-barry-soper/FSRCM6EAYRBJLBSBTY752T2CPE/

Barry Soper takes a look at what's most likely to be remembered from Luxon's trip to Japan - except it's probably not the stuff that he wants it to be remembered for.

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mudguard

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#3250998 20-Jun-2024 07:29

sir1963:

Around 2050 there will be a housing collapse as the retired also start dying in greater numbers.

There will be no one to buy them anyway. I think the Census data trend suggests numbers of school children will start dropping quickly, so there's no point even building new schools.

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#3251038 20-Jun-2024 09:08

Millionaires flee Massachusetts after they implement additional taxes on the very wealthy, just as the very wealthy promise they will do if NZ implements a wealth tax.

Wait, no, that's not what I meant. What I meant was that Massachusetts raised $1.8B in revenue.

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tdgeek

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#3251059 20-Jun-2024 09:32

SaltyNZ:

Millionaires flee Massachusetts after they implement additional taxes on the very wealthy, just as the very wealthy promise they will do if NZ implements a wealth tax.

Wait, no, that's not what I meant. What I meant was that Massachusetts raised $1.8B in revenue.

It shows that taxing high earners is not punitive. Unlikely to notice it on grocery day...

I like this also "Revenue from the surtax is constitutionally mandated to go toward education and transportation initiatives, while excess revenue from capital gains must flow to the state’s emergency savings account. "

Feed the much needed sectors, and put any excess aside for disaster funding. In NZ we have the Consolidated Fund to make the money disappear with no accountability

invisibleman18

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#3251060 20-Jun-2024 09:34

The article does also say plenty of people left in advance of it coming into effect.

In 2021 — before the “millionaires tax” took effect — Massachusetts said goodbye to taxpayers with a collective $4.3 billion in adjusted gross income, an increase of 40 percent from the prior year, according to an analysis by the Pioneer Institute. Nearly 25,200 more tax filers moved out of Massachusetts than moved in, the data show.

A recent analysis by Boston Indicators, the research arm of the Boston Foundation found that the people moving out of Massachusetts across 2021 and 2022 were predominantly middle- and high-income earners, and college-educated.

Particularly dire: Working-age adults are leaving in droves. On net, Massachusetts lost an average of 22,631 people ages 25 to 44 across 2021 and 2022 — the largest number of any age group and a marked increase over previous years, according to the report.

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#3251062 20-Jun-2024 09:44

invisibleman18:

The article does also say plenty of people left in advance of it coming into effect.

And yet, the overall result exceeded expectations.

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freitasm

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#3251067 20-Jun-2024 09:51

I'd wager People who left would be the same people who would try their best to find loopholes.

Is that a loss, if people use public services but don't pay for them?

invisibleman18

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#3251071 20-Jun-2024 09:59

How does it compare to the wealth tax that was proposed here? It's an extra 4% rate on annual earnings over $1 million according to the article so if I understand it correctly it sounds more like a new top personal income tax threshold than strictly a wealth tax so it's taxed on money actually received.

I can't remember the detail of what parties proposed here so I'm probably wrong, but I understood it was more a tax on the value of your equity in your assets (such as property), rather than on income earned, although there may have been a new top personal income tax rate suggested too. I assume $1 million worth of property is not necessarily the same as $1 million income in the bank so not sure the Massachusetts example is exactly the same as what might have happened here but probably not everyone who said they would have left would have ended doing so.

sir1963

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#3251073 20-Jun-2024 10:03

tdgeek:

It shows that taxing high earners is not punitive. Unlikely to notice it on grocery day...

There is the issue, what is a "high earner" ?

We also have the issue that wages (even for high earners) is higher in australia.

Lots of the people I know who shifted to Aus are now Aus citizens and have zero intention of returning.

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