Our new coalition government.

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Networkn
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#2433586 6-Mar-2020 11:47

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12314407

Credit where credit is due, is this a *better* response by Ardern. Not far enough but some improvement over her previous attempts to reign people in.

GV27

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#2433589 6-Mar-2020 11:50

networkn:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12314407

Credit where credit is due, is this a *better* response by Ardern. Not far enough but some improvement over her previous attempts to reign people in.

It's still pathetic. Why is the PM allowed to outsource accountability for Ministerial Conduct to the electorate? The cabinet manual specifically states he is accountable to her.

I am starting to think Ardern is not capable of leading.

networkn

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#2433592 6-Mar-2020 11:56

GV27:

networkn:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12314407

Credit where credit is due, is this a *better* response by Ardern. Not far enough but some improvement over her previous attempts to reign people in.

It's still pathetic. Why is the PM allowed to outsource accountability for Ministerial Conduct to the electorate? The cabinet manual specifically states he is accountable to her.

I am starting to think Ardern is not capable of leading.

As someone has made so much of being principled and claiming to be unwilling to accept ANY racism, or hate speech, it certainly does seem a weaker response than her prior words indicate she would be.

tdgeek

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#2433593 6-Mar-2020 12:01

GV27:

networkn:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12314407

Credit where credit is due, is this a *better* response by Ardern. Not far enough but some improvement over her previous attempts to reign people in.

It's still pathetic. Why is the PM allowed to outsource accountability for Ministerial Conduct to the electorate? The cabinet manual specifically states he is accountable to her.

I am starting to think Ardern is not capable of leading.

What is she supposed to do? She can't fire him, or demote him. She has told the public to not vote for him. Does accountable include firing or demoting him? She has held him accountable and told voters and Peters indirectly, not to to vote for Jones. If you can confirm where in the manual it says she has more power than Peters and can fire an MP that is not on her party, that will be good. Hopefully this is step 1 in declining NZF should thsy again be in a kingmaker role and there is a claoltion discussion again

tdgeek

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#2433595 6-Mar-2020 12:08

networkn:

As someone has made so much of being principled and claiming to be unwilling to accept ANY racism, or hate speech, it certainly does seem a weaker response than her prior words indicate she would be.

Does she have the legal ability to demote or fire Jones? If so, then you are correct. I'd hardly consider telling NZ and Peters to not vote for Jones as weak. She is drawing a line for NZF by makling that statement. Persoanlly I think they are done with NZF, and there will be stuff all offerd to NZF if that conversation is had post election

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#2433597 6-Mar-2020 12:15

tdgeek:

networkn:

As someone has made so much of being principled and claiming to be unwilling to accept ANY racism, or hate speech, it certainly does seem a weaker response than her prior words indicate she would be.

Does she have the legal ability to demote or fire Jones? If so, then you are correct. I'd hardly consider telling NZ and Peters to not vote for Jones as weak. She is drawing a line for NZF by makling that statement. Persoanlly I think they are done with NZF, and there will be stuff all offerd to NZF if that conversation is had post-election

I am trying to find it, but I believe she has control over (her) Cabinet. She cannot remove him as a minister, but as I understand it she can certainly remove his portfolios and demote him unless the coalition agreement says differently (Though we will never know since she refuses to release it despite promising the most honest, accountable and transparent Government ever). There aren't many inside the Coalition I would have put in charge of handling the Regional Bribe (err, sorry I mean fund), but Jones would be very close to the bottom 2).

The Greens had every bit as much power as NZF in the current agreement, they could have been King Makers, since they absolutely could not have formed Government without them.

I cringe to think what a Labour Greens Government will look like.

GV27

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#2433600 6-Mar-2020 12:27

networkn:

I am trying to find it, but I believe she has control over (her) Cabinet. She cannot remove him as a minister, but as I understand it she can certainly remove his portfolios and demote him unless the coalition agreement says differently (Though we will never know since she refuses to release it despite promising the most honest, accountable and transparent Government ever).

Yes, she can remove him:

Resignation and dismissal
2.18 The Governor-General formally effects a Minister’s departure from office by accepting
the Prime Minister’s advice on the Minister’s resignation or dismissal from, or the
revocation of appointment to, both individual portfolios and the Executive Council. As in
the appointment of Ministers, it is a constitutional convention that the Governor-General
acts on the advice of the Prime Minister in dismissing Ministers, accepting their
resignations, or revoking their appointments.

2.19 Prime Ministers have advised the dismissal of Ministers for variousreasons. Procedurally,
all that is required is for the Governor-General to execute an advice sheet that has been
signed by the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister is not legally required to give grounds
for dismissing a Minister.

She literally just has to write to the GG and say "This bloke sucks, I want him gone" and he's out. She doesn't even have to justify it. She just has to actually do something.

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tdgeek

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#2433605 6-Mar-2020 12:43

networkn:

I am trying to find it, but I believe she has control over (her) Cabinet. She cannot remove him as a minister, but as I understand it she can certainly remove his portfolios and demote him unless the coalition agreement says differently (Though we will never know since she refuses to release it despite promising the most honest, accountable and transparent Government ever). There aren't many inside the Coalition I would have put in charge of handling the Regional Bribe (err, sorry I mean fund), but Jones would be very close to the bottom 2).

The Greens had every bit as much power as NZF in the current agreement, they could have been King Makers, since they absolutely could not have formed Government without them.

I cringe to think what a Labour Greens Government will look like.

I cringe daily here also. But in answer to your question, it will be what we hqave now, less one billion trees and PGF

Its patently clear that National will have a landslide win going by this thread. So, just wait till Sept 19 and enjoy is my advice. The whinging here is painful, and embarrasing to read. There is more constructive debate in the old Apple vs Android days :-)

Outta here

GV27

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#2433610 6-Mar-2020 12:51

Bring back Bill, Nat/Greens plz.

sir1963

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#2433616 6-Mar-2020 13:16

GV27:

.

She literally just has to write to the GG and say "This bloke sucks, I want him gone" and he's out. She doesn't even have to justify it. She just has to actually do something.

I would change that to she has to do what YOU want her to do, any other option is unacceptable.

Thing is, she probably has no idea who you are, and certainly does not take advice from you.

Equally, the ONLY time your opinion counts, is at election time and you vote has precisely the same power as anyone else who votes. You may think from the places you frequent that everyone agrees with you, but the truth is most people just stay out of the "debates" because they just end up being abusive, pointless with heated opinions expressed as though they were facts.

As a landlord much of what Labour is doing worries me.

I have met Twyford and strongly disagree with his world view over housing.

But that does not mean I will be voting National either, Nationals under funding of Nurses/health/hospitals and teachers/school maintenance as well as their stance on minimum wage (the sky will fall...), underfunding of Tertiary education, cut back on boarder patrols allowing Kiwi fruit disease and Bovine diseases to enter the country are more worrying. Likewise their flat out denial there was a housing crisis, worrying.

I DONT want a tax cut, it will do bugger all for me. What I do want is school kids fed so they can learn, I want smaller class sizes especially in poverty stricken areas so these kids can learn and hopefully do more with their lives than they thought possible. I want a health system I can rely on, that people don't need to wait for months/years disabled because of treatable conditions. I want boarder patrols to stop these human/animal/agricultural diseases getting in. I want rehabilitation, education, training for those in prison so we have the best opportunity that they will not become recidivists. I also want our environment cleaned up, I want my grandkids to be able to swim in the rivers I did as a kid.

$10 a week in my pocket will do no good for me, but 40 Million a week can do a LOT.

So yeah, I am a capitalist with a sense of social justice and responsibility.

I KNOW my life and education and family upbringing was lucky , I know my love of education has helped me in life to achieve , but I do NOT blame those who have not had the same opportunities as me for not achieving as much as me, I recognise they need help from all of us.

networkn

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#2433621 6-Mar-2020 13:30

sir1963:

I would change that to she has to do what YOU want her to do, any other option is unacceptable.

Rar Rar.

Actually, it's JA who keeps saying that Racism is unacceptable that Hate speech is unacceptable. She has the tools at her disposal to prove she has no tolerance for it, instead, she is saying... Racism isn't acceptable... unless it may impact my political party detrimentally.

MikeB4

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#2433625 6-Mar-2020 13:33

Her authority to censure members of the coalition I would imagine is detailed in the coalition agreement. Winston Peters is directly responsible for Shane Jones, his lack of action and denial of wrong doing I think speaks volumes about Peters and NZF. The sooner NZ is rid of them the better. With the current crisis I am not sure it would be in the nations best interest if the PM took action that resulted in the collapse of the government.

Edit; The Cabinet manual section 2.18-2.20 set out the procedure for dismissal of Ministers.

The Coalition agreement states " The Parties endorse and will operate in accordance with the Cabinet Manual."

GV27

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#2433627 6-Mar-2020 13:36

sir1963:

GV27:

.

She literally just has to write to the GG and say "This bloke sucks, I want him gone" and he's out. She doesn't even have to justify it. She just has to actually do something.

I would change that to she has to do what YOU want her to do, any other option is unacceptable.

Thing is, she probably has no idea who you are, and certainly does not take advice from you.

Equally, the ONLY time your opinion counts, is at election time and you vote has precisely the same power as anyone else who votes. You may think from the places you frequent that everyone agrees with you, but the truth is most people just stay out of the "debates" because they just end up being abusive, pointless with heated opinions expressed as though they were facts.

She does know who I am, at least at some point she has - she visited my office on a matter relating to her electorate when she was in Auckland Central. She is very pleasant to deal with.

However, she is wrong to say that Shane Jones' conduct is not her responsibility as he is from a different party. That is incorrect. That is the issue I have here.

I will not entertain any of the personal motivations you have rather bizarrely ascribed to me, suffice to say there are plenty of actual points in what I have posted you can respond to if you so wish.

GV27

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#2436093 11-Mar-2020 06:56

In the last week week, National have said two incredibly stupid things that have made me recoil to the point where I'm pretty much done:

1) Urged Labour to defer the minimum wage increase by six months in light of the Coronavirus issues. The increase in the minimum wage is not going to be the thing that folds business if Coronavirus takes hold like it has in Italy, it will be having no staff or customers as the entire nation gets locked down.

2) Stated they will repeal some of the rental regulations Labour has bought in. Specifically they have mentioned the rule that is yet to kick in where you can only increase rent once every 12 months.

It is my gut feel that most of the Key-era pragmatists will look at these and go "really, these aren't the worst things in the world" and struggle to vote for a party which clearly lurching to the authoritarian right ala Don Brash in 2005. I just won't do it.

OF COURSE, just to make life interesting, Chris Bishop (a National MP I rate) has been told that the Government has had no formal advice about a start date for the Light Rail line they promised would be in action by 2021.

I've never not voted. But I'm closer to a spoiled ballot as a protest than I ever have been.

MikeB4

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#2436101 11-Mar-2020 07:39

@GV27 I am long time National supporter and was a member for some time. I have become saddened and disillusioned by this dinosaur and the inept leadership it currently has in place. I see no viable leaders in the top ten of the line up.

I am closer than ever to voting Labour in this years election.

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