J Adern, How will she affect the election, and is she a good leader?

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Forums › Politics › J Adern, How will she affect the election, and is she a good leader?

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#1859682 6-Sep-2017 13:21

MikeB4:

Wiggum:

MikeB4:

freitasm: ROFL at supposed adults behaving like this...

Yep its looking like the debating chamber in the Beehive

Its politics after all. They rarely end in agreement and/or well.

I remember as a kid when we use to visit certain family, my Mom always use to remind my Dad before arriving, "No discussions about Politics or religion". I never understood it, I do now!

Just because a discussion is political it does not mean that normal courtesy and respect cannot be maintained

Very true. Referring to someone as a Monkey (In a cleaver sort of roundabout way) normally has the tendency to send the discussion belly up.

It does take 2 to tango, sometimes its best to just ignore the insults and avoid taking them personally. Like avoiding road rage, best to ignore the fools middle finger salute after you toot at him for nearly taking you out.

dwilson

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#1859771 6-Sep-2017 15:36

Political forums should involve plenty of discussion from concerned voters, working through and discussing issues and policies to help them decide on various upcoming elections. Unfortunately the reality is they are filled with loud mouthed people that always vote for the same party not matter what, whether it's Labour, National or the Pissed Off And Angry Party. They live on the edge of the FUG looking to get people angry. For the most part these people are irrelevant, even the political parties recognize them as irrelevant and generally dedicate 0% effort on them.

People that look at policies and try and decide on who to vote for based on benefit to themselves, their family or the betterment of the country are who the parties target with policies and ideas. They are the only opinions that actually matter.

Obnoxious political trolls should be treated like any other troll, or like the party they vehemently support ... by ignoring them.

On topic: Jacinda being compared to Trump is ridiculous, she wants to increase the refugee quota for a start. I see that Wall Street Journal codswallop has now spread to the NZ Herald, we should be ignoring US commentary.

GV27

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#1859925 6-Sep-2017 19:31

On topic: Jacinda being compared to Trump is ridiculous, she wants to increase the refugee quota for a start. I see that Wall Street Journal codswallop has now spread to the NZ Herald, we should be ignoring US commentary.

It's breathlessly reported every time John Oliver has something to say about Key or National. It should go both ways.

Technofreak

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#1859960 6-Sep-2017 21:09

Back on topic.

I get a little scared with the "Let's Do It" tag line.

Who's doing it?
What are they doing?
Who's paying for it?

Jacinda seems to have a lot of ideas on what she might do if elected but seems bit light on how these idea might be achieved.

One big issue I have with her is she has never worked outside of politics. She doesn't know what it's like in the real world. She's not alone, there's too many politicians with similar backgrounds.

Like him or dislike him one of John Keys biggest strengths was he didn't have a political background.

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MikeB4

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#1859970 6-Sep-2017 21:39

Technofreak:

Back on topic.

I get a little scared with the "Let's Do It" tag line.

Who's doing it?
What are they doing?
Who's paying for it?
Jacinda seems to have a lot of ideas on what she might do if elected but seems bit light on how these idea might be achieved.

One big issue I have with her is she has never worked outside of politics. She doesn't know what it's like in the real world. She's not alone, there's too many politicians with similar backgrounds.

Like him or dislike him one of John Keys biggest strengths was he didn't have a political background.

A small point it's "Lets do this"

networkn

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#1859979 6-Sep-2017 21:55

Technofreak:

Back on topic.

I get a little scared with the "Let's Do It" tag line.

Who's doing it?
What are they doing?
Who's paying for it?
Jacinda seems to have a lot of ideas on what she might do if elected but seems bit light on how these idea might be achieved.

One big issue I have with her is she has never worked outside of politics. She doesn't know what it's like in the real world. She's not alone, there's too many politicians with similar backgrounds.

Like him or dislike him one of John Keys biggest strengths was he didn't have a political background.

I agree. Her lack of "real" world experience makes it hard to trust she understands the impact her decisions have on real people with real problems. I am not saying she is completely ignorant, but there are things that a real job in the commercial sector gives you.

I have a friend who has worked his whole life for NGO's. He has been all over the world and helped a lot of people, but when the NGO jobs fell through, he went to the private sector for jobs. He has no trouble securing jobs, highly paid positions, but he really has no idea how the private sector works and has not managed to hold onto jobs very long as he just doesn't "get it". He didn't have to deal with commercial realities and interactions in the public sector are different to those in private sectors.

Similarly, I think it's hard to see how someone without children can understand the challenges parents face every day or the pressures that brings with it. My opinions on what it was like to parent are nearly 85% different to those I held before I had kids.

I have had to compromise on things I felt were non-negotiable, learn a level of patience I had never comprehended could be required, and learn to deal with situations I never thought of before. I think that has made me a better person in almost every way.

Of course it's possible to be a good leader without these things, but I feel it makes it much harder to relate.

Running a business has taught me the other side of being an employee. I have a view from both sides.

As has been pointed out, she has a lot of energy, a lot of enthusiasm (which I think BE also does but displays it very differently). Realities are very different.

As much as it pains me to say it, Little had a better approach to Tax. He also wanted a working group, but had promised it wouldn't be enacted until everyone knew what the plan was, and this would be a second term thing. That is smart. JA has basically said she will follow the tax groups plans, pretty much as soon as they go through with it which means if you vote Labour in, you have NO idea what crackpot plans they could come up with (I'd have the exact same feeling with Nationals tax groups), that would be enacted.

The fact this isn't worrying more people, concerns me.

MikeB4

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#1859987 6-Sep-2017 22:02

Jacinda Ardern isnt a newbie as such she has been around for a bit. She was an adviser to Tony Blair and worked with Helen Clarke. She has been involved in politics for around 16 years.

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Wiggum

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#1859990 6-Sep-2017 22:10

MikeB4:

Jacinda Ardern isnt a newbie as such she has been around for a bit. She was an adviser to Tony Blair and worked with Helen Clarke. She has been involved in politics for around 16 years.

6 weeks ago I had never heard of her. Maybe I was living under a rock!

networkn

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#1859994 6-Sep-2017 22:27

MikeB4:

Jacinda Ardern isnt a newbie as such she has been around for a bit. She was an adviser to Tony Blair and worked with Helen Clarke. She has been involved in politics for around 16 years.

None of that addresses the specific points I made. I am not saying she isn't a politician, I am saying, in my opinion, she has done none of the things I'd consider would make her a better leader for New Zealand.

Technofreak

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#1860000 6-Sep-2017 22:42

MikeB4:

Jacinda Ardern isnt a newbie as such she has been around for a bit. She was an adviser to Tony Blair and worked with Helen Clarke. She has been involved in politics for around 16 years.

To paraphrase, she has been around politics all her working life. That for me is a problem.

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Handle9

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#1860002 6-Sep-2017 22:48

Technofreak:
MikeB4:

Jacinda Ardern isnt a newbie as such she has been around for a bit. She was an adviser to Tony Blair and worked with Helen Clarke. She has been involved in politics for around 16 years.

To paraphrase, she has been around politics all her working life. That for me is a problem.

Good point. Its fortunate that Bill English had an extensive career outside politics. Oh wait he's been an MP for the last 27 years. But prior to that he worked in private enterprise. Oh woops no for the treasury. Never mind...

Wiggum

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#1860024 6-Sep-2017 23:18

Handle9:

Good point. Its fortunate that Bill English had an extensive career outside politics. Oh wait he's been an MP for the last 27 years. But prior to that he worked in private enterprise. Oh woops no for the treasury. Never mind...

A career in just politics does not bother me that much.

Deputy PM, and Finance Minister are excellent past roles for a would be Prime Minister don't you think?

Jacinda. Well, some would prefer she just jump straight into it. Kinda like applying for the CEO role without any previous experience. The worst part of it, no financial/economics experience either.

networkn

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#1860025 6-Sep-2017 23:22

Wiggum:

Jacinda. Well, some would prefer she just jump straight into it. Kinda like applying for the CEO role without any previous experience. The worst part of it, no financial/economics experience either.

I am sure she manages the finances at home :)

(I'm just kidding, don't jump down my throat people).

Rikkitic

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#1860028 6-Sep-2017 23:35

networkn:

Similarly, I think it's hard to see how someone without children can understand the challenges parents face every day or the pressures that brings with it. My opinions on what it was like to parent are nearly 85% different to those I held before I had kids.

I have had to compromise on things I felt were non-negotiable, learn a level of patience I had never comprehended could be required, and learn to deal with situations I never thought of before. I think that has made me a better person in almost every way.

Of course it's possible to be a good leader without these things, but I feel it makes it much harder to relate.

You make some good points but you seem to have a slight fixation about Jacinda and children. Either you are worried that she will want to have some, which should not be an issue at all, or you are worried that she doesn't have any, which is equally frivolous. As you say, it is perfectly possible to be a good leader without the experience of parenthood, so why bother raising it at all? You seem to just be searching for justification not to take her seriously as a potential PM.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

networkn

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#1860029 6-Sep-2017 23:47

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Similarly, I think it's hard to see how someone without children can understand the challenges parents face every day or the pressures that brings with it. My opinions on what it was like to parent are nearly 85% different to those I held before I had kids.

I have had to compromise on things I felt were non-negotiable, learn a level of patience I had never comprehended could be required, and learn to deal with situations I never thought of before. I think that has made me a better person in almost every way.

Of course it's possible to be a good leader without these things, but I feel it makes it much harder to relate.

You make some good points but you seem to have a slight fixation about Jacinda and children. Either you are worried that she will want to have some, which should not be an issue at all, or you are worried that she doesn't have any, which is equally frivolous. As you say, it is perfectly possible to be a good leader without the experience of parenthood, so why bother raising it at all? You seem to just be searching for justification not to take her seriously as a potential PM.

You say I make some good points, but you then go on to disagree with them.

I don't have a "fixation", I haven't gone on about it for 20 pages, I simply raised some points around life experience which I consider relevant.

There are, in my opinion, no shortage of reasons to not take her seriously as a potential PM, not least of all that at the start of this year she categorically stated she didn't want to be PM.

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