Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

1 | ... | 235 | 236 | 237 | 238 | 239 | 240 | 241 | 242 | 243 | 244 | 245 | ... | 268

7773 posts

Uber Geek

#2051822 9-Jul-2018 10:07

Aredwood: Simple. Just make it a requirement that to income split. You have to be either married / in a civil union. Or have kids with your partner. Easy to answer yes / no to those questions.

Even that would exclude many de-facto couples who have no desire to marry or have civil union. For example myself and my partner have been living together for >10 years. Four kids between us but none together. Information that is easily verifiable by IRD, the electoral commission, land transport, MoH ....

Mike

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2052403 10-Jul-2018 09:19

Melinda Gates impressed by NZ's parental leave and families package:

https://twitter.com/melindagates/status/1015608375311249408

MikeAqua

7773 posts

Uber Geek

#2052451 10-Jul-2018 09:52

gzt: Melinda Gates impressed by NZ's parental leave and families package:

https://twitter.com/melindagates/status/1015608375311249408

Paid parental leave isn't new, Labour merely extended it - with support to pass the bill from National in return for a concession to allow both parents to take leave simultaneously.

Mike

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2052458 10-Jul-2018 10:02

Melinda should be impressed that most countries have public healthcare, paid parental leave, sick leave and annual leave - things that many in America can't even dream of.

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2052462 10-Jul-2018 10:05

freitasm:

Melinda should be impressed that most countries have public healthcare, paid parental leave, sick leave and annual leave - things that many in America can't even dream of.

I was going to say, it's easy to be impressed when you compare it to the USA :)

Geektastic

17942 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2052767 10-Jul-2018 15:34

GV27:
Geektastic:

GV27:

We already have income splitting for people who actually need it as part of WFFTC calculations. I don't see why people earning hundreds of thousands of dollars should be able to split income so one person can stay out home when there are lots of households where people have to slog their guts out to make ends meet.

What has one got to do with the other? Why should people who have the smarts to earn well be penalised just because some other people do not?

How are you being penalised? Is being asked to contribute towards the state that allowed you to monetize your "smarts" really being penalised? If you don't pay, who should cover your end?

My end of what?

The point is that it doesn't matter that some people make more than others and neither does that create some right to force them to pay to subside the less fortunate. Life is hard. Some people do better than others. That isn't a problem as far as I'm concerned. I don't expect Richard Branson to have a tax bill a million times higher than me. I'm fine with him doing better than me and I don't think that fact should entitle the state to simply take more.

Taxes should be a flat rate. His tax bill would still be physically greater but proportionally the same which seems the epitome of fairness to me.

Pumpedd

1759 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2052844 10-Jul-2018 18:08

networkn:

freitasm:

Melinda should be impressed that most countries have public healthcare, paid parental leave, sick leave and annual leave - things that many in America can't even dream of.

I was going to say, it's easy to be impressed when you compare it to the USA :)

USA seems to have a far higher working wage where most people dont need family tax relief and can afford health care. Our wage rate is well behind.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2052881 10-Jul-2018 19:13

Pumpedd: USA seems to have a far higher working wage where most people dont need family tax relief and can afford health care. Our wage rate is well behind.

They have working poor on foodstanps and a health system that varies from city to city and state to state with some federal assistance here and there passed on depending on the state. It's not particularly consistent. It would not surprise me one bit if adding federal and state they spend the same or more as us for far worse outcomes.

Adding to all that actual health insurance costs and actual entitlement seem to be a constant worry for many americans.

In both cases with so much ticket clipping along the way we could not even begin to comprehend it.

Pumpedd

1759 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2053004 10-Jul-2018 22:37

gzt:
Pumpedd: USA seems to have a far higher working wage where most people dont need family tax relief and can afford health care. Our wage rate is well behind.

They have working poor on foodstanps and a health system that varies from city to city and state to state with some federal assistance here and there passed on depending on the state. It's not particularly consistent. It would not surprise me one bit if adding federal and state they spend the same or more as us for far worse outcomes.

Adding to all that actual health insurance costs and actual entitlement seem to be a constant worry for many americans.

In both cases with so much ticket clipping along the way we could not even begin to comprehend it.

Yes that is correct, but the percentage we have on working for families and benefits is massive.

Geektastic

17942 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2053018 11-Jul-2018 00:07

Pumpedd:

networkn:

freitasm:

Melinda should be impressed that most countries have public healthcare, paid parental leave, sick leave and annual leave - things that many in America can't even dream of.

I was going to say, it's easy to be impressed when you compare it to the USA :)

USA seems to have a far higher working wage where most people dont need family tax relief and can afford health care. Our wage rate is well behind.

I don't know if that is true. I do know that they pay a whole lot less for almost everything (most especially petrol!) and that therefore even if their earnings are identical to ours, they go much further.

They also have a number of tax benefits we do not have - for example the Head of Household allowance, the ability to deduct mortgage and property taxes from income before tax is calculated, fixed low interest rates for 30+ years, 401k plans and so on.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#2053022 11-Jul-2018 01:06

dejadeadnz:

Pumpedd:

Mike simply responded to my post. There is no need to be negative toward him for being honest. It is not your place to decide who has a right and who hasnt. So sad.

Depends on what one cares about in life. I take from the title of this thread that this is meant to be about political discussions where claims made should have some basis in fact. Mike's claim that his wife was taxed horribly has absolutely zero basis in fact.

A ten second Google search would reveal to anyone who cares to look that relative to other similar countries (and this is all that matters if we were concerned about facts - since we are all homo sapiens, have to currently live on Earth, and typically within a nation state), high earners in NZ are not taxed horribly. Both my wife and I paid out similar amounts in tax to his wife last year and we have zero complaints. Why? Research from people like Herbert Simon (a Nobel Prize-winning economist) has revealed that approximately 90% of income earned by individuals from first world countries arise primarily from common social goods. It's externalities in regards to being able to access such social goods required to better oneself etc that primarily decides one's lot in life.

Even if one doesn't accept that, people like us choose to look up on the internet and actually realise that NZers aren't taxed that back.

End of story.

Not quite the end of the story.

According to the same link you have posted, It also has the ratio of the average wage Vs the wage at which the top tax rate starts to apply. And it also has average wages converted to US$ and adjusted for purchasing power parity.

For NZ, the top tax rate applies at just 1.2 times the average wage. Which in turn means that alot of people have to pay that top wage. Quite a few of the countries listed have much higher ratios, meaning you would only pay the top tax rate if you earned a very high income.

And it gets worse when you consider how low the average wages are in NZ. Going off that same table, the top tax rate in NZ applies at a lower income than the average wage in Australia. And that is before you have even considered housing costs in NZ.

It doesn't consider student loan repayment costs either. The repayment rate is 12% last time I checked. So if you have a student loan, your top tax rate in NZ is actually 45%.

And finally, it doesn't take into consideration allowable tax deductions for employees. In NZ, there is practically nothing (apart from donating to charity) that you can legally tax deduct as an employee. Yet other countries do allow employees to make tax deductions. For example, in Sweden, (country with the highest personal tax rate in the table). The cost of taking public transport to and from work is tax deductible. (assuming distance travelled is at least 2Km). And in some situations (including if no public transport is available). The cost of driving your car to work is tax deductible. Sweden also has a higher average wage based on purchasing power, and a larger ratio of that wage before their top tax rate applies.

And Australia gives a tax deduction if you are caring for an invalid person, as well as some more limited transport deductions. And like Sweden, Australia has both higher average wages, and a higher ratio before their top tax rate applies.

An extreme case of the ratio of average income to top tax rate is France. Their top tax rate is 53.9% But the ratio is 14.6X Which means that you would only pay that if you earn over US$705,000. I wouldn't mind paying such a high tax rate if my pay rate was that large. And there might be some tax deductions available in France as well.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2053129 11-Jul-2018 09:22

Pumpedd:

networkn:

freitasm:

Melinda should be impressed that most countries have public healthcare, paid parental leave, sick leave and annual leave - things that many in America can't even dream of.

I was going to say, it's easy to be impressed when you compare it to the USA :)

USA seems to have a far higher working wage where most people dont need family tax relief and can afford health care. Our wage rate is well behind.

Yeah, about that... Their "living wage" is why bars, cafes, restaurants, taxis, hotels, etc charge/expect tips.

Geektastic

17942 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2054150 11-Jul-2018 10:05

Aredwood:

dejadeadnz:

Pumpedd:

Mike simply responded to my post. There is no need to be negative toward him for being honest. It is not your place to decide who has a right and who hasnt. So sad.

Depends on what one cares about in life. I take from the title of this thread that this is meant to be about political discussions where claims made should have some basis in fact. Mike's claim that his wife was taxed horribly has absolutely zero basis in fact.

A ten second Google search would reveal to anyone who cares to look that relative to other similar countries (and this is all that matters if we were concerned about facts - since we are all homo sapiens, have to currently live on Earth, and typically within a nation state), high earners in NZ are not taxed horribly. Both my wife and I paid out similar amounts in tax to his wife last year and we have zero complaints. Why? Research from people like Herbert Simon (a Nobel Prize-winning economist) has revealed that approximately 90% of income earned by individuals from first world countries arise primarily from common social goods. It's externalities in regards to being able to access such social goods required to better oneself etc that primarily decides one's lot in life.

Even if one doesn't accept that, people like us choose to look up on the internet and actually realise that NZers aren't taxed that back.

End of story.

Not quite the end of the story.

According to the same link you have posted, It also has the ratio of the average wage Vs the wage at which the top tax rate starts to apply. And it also has average wages converted to US$ and adjusted for purchasing power parity.

For NZ, the top tax rate applies at just 1.2 times the average wage. Which in turn means that alot of people have to pay that top wage. Quite a few of the countries listed have much higher ratios, meaning you would only pay the top tax rate if you earned a very high income.

And it gets worse when you consider how low the average wages are in NZ. Going off that same table, the top tax rate in NZ applies at a lower income than the average wage in Australia. And that is before you have even considered housing costs in NZ.

It doesn't consider student loan repayment costs either. The repayment rate is 12% last time I checked. So if you have a student loan, your top tax rate in NZ is actually 45%.

And finally, it doesn't take into consideration allowable tax deductions for employees. In NZ, there is practically nothing (apart from donating to charity) that you can legally tax deduct as an employee. Yet other countries do allow employees to make tax deductions. For example, in Sweden, (country with the highest personal tax rate in the table). The cost of taking public transport to and from work is tax deductible. (assuming distance travelled is at least 2Km). And in some situations (including if no public transport is available). The cost of driving your car to work is tax deductible. Sweden also has a higher average wage based on purchasing power, and a larger ratio of that wage before their top tax rate applies.

And Australia gives a tax deduction if you are caring for an invalid person, as well as some more limited transport deductions. And like Sweden, Australia has both higher average wages, and a higher ratio before their top tax rate applies.

An extreme case of the ratio of average income to top tax rate is France. Their top tax rate is 53.9% But the ratio is 14.6X Which means that you would only pay that if you earn over US$705,000. I wouldn't mind paying such a high tax rate if my pay rate was that large. And there might be some tax deductions available in France as well.

Also, not sure if it was taken into account in the figures you mention, but many countries also have a tax free basic allowance on which no tax is payable. NZ has no such allowance but if it did, and it was comparable to say the UK, then you could earn up to NZ$23,000 before income tax kicked in at all.

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2054161 11-Jul-2018 10:16

The flipside of not allowing deductions for personal items is it makes the tax system simpler and less prone to abuse and not everyone needs to file a return. We don't need to go down the road of the USA or Greece and allow huge personal deductions in tax returns. There's barely enough net taxpayers as it is.

Pumpedd

1759 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2054163 11-Jul-2018 10:20

freitasm:

Pumpedd:

networkn:

freitasm:

Melinda should be impressed that most countries have public healthcare, paid parental leave, sick leave and annual leave - things that many in America can't even dream of.

I was going to say, it's easy to be impressed when you compare it to the USA :)

USA seems to have a far higher working wage where most people dont need family tax relief and can afford health care. Our wage rate is well behind.

Yeah, about that... Their "living wage" is why bars, cafes, restaurants, taxis, hotels, etc charge/expect tips.

True, but that is almost part of their employment.

I still think our wages are low here and dont understand why considering we are such a good economy.

1 | ... | 235 | 236 | 237 | 238 | 239 | 240 | 241 | 242 | 243 | 244 | 245 | ... | 268