Homeless in NZ

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Awrrr
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#1827119 22-Jul-2017 15:25

robjg63:
Rikkitic:

networkn:

Well, heres mine. I have personally met 3 people who pretend to be homeless and beg in Auckland central who make very very good money who go home to their nice houses and nice cars.

I find this remark highly offensive. Are you trying to suggest that homelessness doesn't exist and all beggars have upmarket lifestyles? You are usually better than this kind of crap.

Have to take you to task there. Around queen street there is certainly an increasing group of mentally unwell and homeless people, but there are also con artists cashing in on begging as a (sometimes) viable income stream.
That said I am aware that many of the 'unwell' people have serious addiction problems and use any money they get to fuel their habits. Even the welfare support agencies have said don't give money to individuals, it's not helping.

Back on topic though. Homeless now, is the increasing number of ordinary (often fully employed) who can not afford a roof over their heads - either rented or bought.

I have no strong political allegiance, but think the current rulers have gone to sleep at the wheel for at least the few years. It's actually worked quite well for them in some respects, but it is causing a widening division of 'haves' and 'have nots'.

I do expect any government to make social policy and fix problems. It is their job and reason for existence.
To quote Prince Philip February 1964. Gentlemen, I think it is about time we 'pulled our fingers out'

I don't doubt there are lowlifes who do this kind of thing and I don't doubt that networkn knows three of them, but statements like this leave the suggestion that all beggars and homeless people are living the high life and minimise the real suffering and misery that drives some people to beg in the first place. It becomes an excuse to do nothing and I find it despicable. For every three fraudsters someone can come up with, there are likely 30 or three hundred others in genuine need. This kind of remark cheapens their desperation and that is why I find it offensive.

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Geektastic

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#1827122 22-Jul-2017 15:43

alasta:

Unfortunately the housing crisis is a problem that's been brewing for 10 - 15 years, and even with the best political will in the world it's going to take at least another 10 - 15 years to catch up the deficit.

The government seems to think that increasing the accommodation supplement is the solution, but all that does is shift the problem from those eligible for the accommodation supplement to those who aren't. If there aren't enough houses then there aren't enough houses, no matter how you shuffle money around.

I'm not sure how building more houses which people who clearly have no job, no income etc would be unable to afford to own or occupy in any case would solve the problem at hand.

tdgeek

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#1827135 22-Jul-2017 15:53

Geektastic:

alasta:

Unfortunately the housing crisis is a problem that's been brewing for 10 - 15 years, and even with the best political will in the world it's going to take at least another 10 - 15 years to catch up the deficit.

The government seems to think that increasing the accommodation supplement is the solution, but all that does is shift the problem from those eligible for the accommodation supplement to those who aren't. If there aren't enough houses then there aren't enough houses, no matter how you shuffle money around.

I'm not sure how building more houses which people who clearly have no job, no income etc would be unable to afford to own or occupy in any case would solve the problem at hand.

Thats where the Govt steps in or should have. Now we are paying 180k per week for motel bills. To be fair, this stuff isn't the Nats MO, so its been left to rot. The so called housing crisis has been ignored, and while the homeless arent in the market for $1M homes, all houses have risen and so have rents. But I assume thats a market issue, so ok to ignore? While many won't want a left Govt to rule the nation, the right are clearly not interested. Many policies we have little control; as we are small and on the global wave. But this isn't, its a local NZ issue.

Rikkitic

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#1827136 22-Jul-2017 15:54

Geektastic:

I'm not sure how building more houses which people who clearly have no job, no income etc would be unable to afford to own or occupy in any case would solve the problem at hand.

Do you not follow the media at all? There is and has been a major ongoing housing crisis, especially in Auckland but also elsewhere, for people who do have a job and income. I'm sure they would just love to see some more houses built.

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networkn

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#1827138 22-Jul-2017 15:59

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Well, heres mine. I have personally met 3 people who pretend to be homeless and beg in Auckland central who make very very good money who go home to their nice houses and nice cars.

I find this remark highly offensive. Are you trying to suggest that homelessness doesn't exist and all beggars have upmarket lifestyles? You are usually better than this kind of crap.

Do you really need to ask if you think that's what I meant? Sounds like you are just aching for a reason to go and get upset. Perhaps go and read my other comments before you go and work yourself into a lather picking the worse possible interpretation of something

someone says.

Geektastic

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#1827144 22-Jul-2017 16:23

Rikkitic:

Geektastic:

I'm not sure how building more houses which people who clearly have no job, no income etc would be unable to afford to own or occupy in any case would solve the problem at hand.

Do you not follow the media at all? There is and has been a major ongoing housing crisis, especially in Auckland but also elsewhere, for people who do have a job and income. I'm sure they would just love to see some more houses built.

Speaking as someone who now has personal experience of the planning process here, I would point the finger at the councils who appear to be the living embodiment of the epithet "pay peanuts, get monkeys" in terms of planning staff.

If you want the government to do something, I'd suggest revamping the RMA completely, removing planning from within it to a seperate Town & Country Planning Act framework and leaving the RMA to deal with things like water, sewage discharge and so forth.

The requirement for a landowner to complete all the infrastructure before title is issued is a massive bottleneck in many cases to the release of land for development and is entirely unnecessary.

I'd also require a professional degree qualification before you can work in Planning too. Apparently, according to the NZ Planning Institute, a degree is only something that "can help if seeking more senior positions." I'd say it should be the minimum before working in such a complex area with significant impact on NZ Inc.

Wiggum

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#1827150 22-Jul-2017 16:29

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Well, heres mine. I have personally met 3 people who pretend to be homeless and beg in Auckland central who make very very good money who go home to their nice houses and nice cars.

I find this remark highly offensive. Are you trying to suggest that homelessness doesn't exist and all beggars have upmarket lifestyles? You are usually better than this kind of crap.

Puzzled at how you can be offended? Are you homeless?

tdgeek:

Thats where the Govt steps in or should have. Now we are paying 180k per week for motel bills. To be fair, this stuff isn't the Nats MO, so its been left to rot. The so called housing crisis has been ignored, and while the homeless arent in the market for $1M homes, all houses have risen and so have rents. But I assume thats a market issue, so ok to ignore? While many won't want a left Govt to rule the nation, the right are clearly not interested. Many policies we have little control; as we are small and on the global wave. But this isn't, its a local NZ issue.

Havent the Nats dont more for beneficiaries in the past few years than any other government in in the last 30+ years? I seem to recall a 790 million package or something to tackle child "poverty". Benefit increases have also increased hugely under National. These increases to benefits were the first to go beyond inflation since 1977. But hey, most will ignore these stats.

Rikkitic:

There is and has been a major ongoing housing crisis, especially in Auckland but also elsewhere, for people who do have a job and income. I'm sure they would just love to see some more houses built.

Its a hard one to fix. And nobody is going to vote for a goverment that proposes a policy to bring down house prices. I like where they are currently, its helping saving for my retirement.

Building more houses is not going to solve anything. We need to get more people into higher paid jobs.

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mattwnz

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#1827156 22-Jul-2017 16:38

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

alasta:

Unfortunately the housing crisis is a problem that's been brewing for 10 - 15 years, and even with the best political will in the world it's going to take at least another 10 - 15 years to catch up the deficit.

The government seems to think that increasing the accommodation supplement is the solution, but all that does is shift the problem from those eligible for the accommodation supplement to those who aren't. If there aren't enough houses then there aren't enough houses, no matter how you shuffle money around.

I'm not sure how building more houses which people who clearly have no job, no income etc would be unable to afford to own or occupy in any case would solve the problem at hand.

Thats where the Govt steps in or should have. Now we are paying 180k per week for motel bills. To be fair, this stuff isn't the Nats MO, so its been left to rot. The so called housing crisis has been ignored, and while the homeless arent in the market for $1M homes, all houses have risen and so have rents. But I assume thats a market issue, so ok to ignore? While many won't want a left Govt to rule the nation, the right are clearly not interested. Many policies we have little control; as we are small and on the global wave. But this isn't, its a local NZ issue.

They are 1 million dollar houses, but more than half of that costs is for all the land regulations. Source http://www.interest.co.nz/property/88883/government-says-land-use-regulation-blame-56%C2%A0-cost-average-house-auckland

The government are blaming things such as rising rent costs for the problems, but that then shows a flaw with the current free market system. NZ is also far too small for a free market to operate properly in many areas, which is why some industries are regulated (eg the telco industry). As a result we have a lack of competition in so many areas, and as a result NZers are paying too much. eg The building materials industry, where NZ pays a lot more for things such as basic building materials such as plaster board . So the high cost of materials pushes the price of building up. As does having to build all the extra houses for the record immigration coming into nz. IMO it is all going it end in tears for at least some who have paid too much for their house and haven't taken into consideration interest rate rises. Already the market has cooled a lot, but I wonder if that is mainly to do with overseas buyers waiting to see if there will be a change in government or not.

Fred99

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#1827158 22-Jul-2017 16:44

Wiggum:

We need to get more people into higher paid jobs.

Or pay more highly for jobs that they're already doing.

The concept that we should "upskill everybody" to enable them to earn like orthodontists and merchant bankers falls apart when there's also a need for people to drive buses, stock supermarket shelves, and tend to the gardens of the rich. When wages paid at that level aren't "liveable" - then society - as we know it - will fail.

Rikkitic

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#1827160 22-Jul-2017 16:45

networkn:

Do you really need to ask if you think that's what I meant? Sounds like you are just aching for a reason to go and get upset. Perhaps go and read my other comments before you go and work yourself into a lather picking the worse possible interpretation of something

someone says.

We disagree on nearly everything but your comments are often intelligent and sensible, unlike some others from the 'right'. This one was not. You can always find bad examples to tar a whole group with if you go looking. It is not evidence of anything. It just gives ammunition to feed the prejudices of the feeble-minded.

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mattwnz

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#1827161 22-Jul-2017 16:50

Fred99:

Wiggum:

We need to get more people into higher paid jobs.

Or pay more highly for jobs that they're already doing.

The concept that we should "upskill everybody" to enable them to earn like orthodontists and merchant bankers falls apart when there's also a need for people to drive buses, stock supermarket shelves, and tend to the gardens of the rich. When wages paid at that level aren't "liveable" - then society - as we know it - will fail.

Some people don't want to work in these high paid jobs, because the lifestyle can be poor, and the stress and be very high. But where does this actual money come from to pay people higher wages? I see some councils are now paying 'living wages'. But they are living in a bubble, because their money comes from rate and tax payers, so it is almost a bottomless pit of money. eg They can just put peoples rates up 5% a year, and unless there is a rebellion against this, they can get away with it.

tdgeek

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#1827166 22-Jul-2017 16:58

Wiggum:

tdgeek:

Thats where the Govt steps in or should have. Now we are paying 180k per week for motel bills. To be fair, this stuff isn't the Nats MO, so its been left to rot. The so called housing crisis has been ignored, and while the homeless arent in the market for $1M homes, all houses have risen and so have rents. But I assume thats a market issue, so ok to ignore? While many won't want a left Govt to rule the nation, the right are clearly not interested. Many policies we have little control; as we are small and on the global wave. But this isn't, its a local NZ issue.

Havent the Nats dont more for beneficiaries in the past few years than any other government in in the last 30+ years? I seem to recall a 790 million package or something to tackle child "poverty". Benefit increases have also increased hugely under National. These increases to benefits were the first to go beyond inflation since 1977. But hey, most will ignore these stats.

The beneficiaries may not agree. Child poverty is rampant here. When inflation is extremely low, thats not too hard. The Health system is broke, only the other day DHB South I think is well behind the 8 ball. The homeless are beneficiaries generally, not good. Those that are not beneficiaries, also not good.

But hey, they have done well.

Wiggum

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#1827167 22-Jul-2017 17:00

Fred99:

Wiggum:

We need to get more people into higher paid jobs.

Or pay more highly for jobs that they're already doing.

The concept that we should "upskill everybody" to enable them to earn like orthodontists and merchant bankers falls apart when there's also a need for people to drive buses, stock supermarket shelves, and tend to the gardens of the rich. When wages paid at that level aren't "liveable" - then society - as we know it - will fail.

I disagree.

Those jobs should never be seen as permanent. I will use the "toilet cleaner" as an argument. This is not a highly skilled job, are you proposing we pay cleaners/toilet cleaners more money? Higher the minimum income some more? Bottom line is this is a very basic job, anybody can do it. Keep the pay low so that these people in these low end jobs have some goals to work themselves out of it.

These jobs have to get done. We cant look at these jobs and say that its unfare for these people to not be able to afford a house etc. We all have access to the system in NZ. Anybody willing to do it, can go and upsill themselves. (nterest free?)

There really is little excuse for those that don't have good jobs. The proof is in the immigration numbers, we short skilled in NZ, and we have to imprt skills from all over the world. If more people worked/tried harder to get somewhere, it would even help with the immigration problem.

wages at the very bottom need to be just a little bit better than being on the benefit.

Wiggum

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#1827172 22-Jul-2017 17:06

tdgeek:

The beneficiaries may not agree. Child poverty is rampant here. When inflation is extremely low, thats not too hard. The Health system is broke, only the other day DHB South I think is well behind the 8 ball. The homeless are beneficiaries generally, not good. Those that are not beneficiaries, also not good.

But hey, they have done well.

Child "poverty" in NZ is really mostly a bad parenting problem. There is no excuse really at how some parents can get away with how they just don't worry about their kids etc.

Yes some kids go to school without lunch and possibly shoes. But what parent in his right mind would ever send their kid off to school for the whole day without food. Its sick really, and sometimes I wish we took a harder stance on parents in NZ. In many other countries, parents like this would be prosecuted. A loaf of bread is $1, I fail to understand how some kids can be sent to school without lunch.

/ end of rant

tdgeek

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#1827174 22-Jul-2017 17:11

mattwnz:

They are 1 million dollar houses, but more than half of that costs is for all the land regulations. Source http://www.interest.co.nz/property/88883/government-says-land-use-regulation-blame-56%C2%A0-cost-average-house-auckland

The government are blaming things such as rising rent costs for the problems, but that then shows a flaw with the current free market system. NZ is also far too small for a free market to operate properly in many areas, which is why some industries are regulated (eg the telco industry). As a result we have a lack of competition in so many areas, and as a result NZers are paying too much. eg The building materials industry, where NZ pays a lot more for things such as basic building materials such as plaster board . So the high cost of materials pushes the price of building up. As does having to build all the extra houses for the record immigration coming into nz. IMO it is all going it end in tears for at least some who have paid too much for their house and haven't taken into consideration interest rate rises. Already the market has cooled a lot, but I wonder if that is mainly to do with overseas buyers waiting to see if there will be a change in government or not.

I get that and I agree. Whats been done about these costs? Nothing. This issue isn't new. As for those that bought in the last year or so, well, thats tough. This thread is about the homeless, the homeowners can look after themselves, as well as not being homeless, they are homeowners, a tough thing to accomplish these days.

I feel the market has cooled as the would be home buyers are now homeowners, which leaves the would be home buyers short of a deposit or the ability to fund a mortgage. I don't see the immigration has affected availability that much, as those homes are not homes that the lower down people can buy or build.

But this is a free market economy, so its then up to the Govt of the day to cater for those that cannot cope with the free market economy, but that seems a low priority.

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