Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Hammered
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#3060376 8-Apr-2023 18:29

tdgeek:
Rikkitic:

What a lot of glee over a couple of verbal own goals. Ha ha I can see your underwear!

Yep, its all partisan and immature. Hopefully David Seymour will be PM soon to give us direction...

Did you forget to add something to indicate that was sarcasm? If not, you have got to be kidding.

People often mistake me for an adult because of my age.

Keep calm, and carry on posting.

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tdgeek

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#3060746 9-Apr-2023 17:31

Stu:

Did you forget to add something to indicate that was sarcasm? If not, you have got to be kidding.

No, the sarcasm was obvious IMO

Technofreak

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#3061001 10-Apr-2023 14:05

As much about the Labour governments since 2017 as it is about the Chris Hipkins version.

Scary reading and paywalled unfortunately. The Herald should allow free access to this sort of reading.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/paul-glass-the-real-size-of-govt-debt-in-nz-stripped-of-accounting-tricks/T3YYKGRWQBANFO334PGJWJ4MRY/

Take away points

Previous governments had taken a prudent approach, this government's spending is unmatched.
Government debt has doubled since 2017.
$1700 per household went to the PGF, most of which has been wasted.
Covid relief fund of 70 billion, much of which wasn't spent on Covid but was hidden spending on pet projects
1.2 billion per annum being spent on consultants
15,000 more bureaucrats
The fuel subsidy is effectively borrowed money which has to be repaid.

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quickymart

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#3061128 10-Apr-2023 18:34

I agree there are lots of articles in the Herald that should be free - but an opinion piece from some nobody, who runs an investment firm and (no doubt) has a vested interest in National wining the next election?
I'm okay without reading what he thinks, thanks.

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#3061132 10-Apr-2023 18:48

quickymart:

I agree there are lots of articles in the Herald that should be free - but an opinion piece from some nobody, who runs an investment firm and (no doubt) has a vested interest in National wining the next election?
I'm okay without reading what he thinks, thanks.

I haven't read the article for his interpretation, but I appreciate the summary. It's difficult to argue with hard numbers.

While it would be great if people could come up with their own opinions, who should we listen to, if anyone? Politicians obviously have a bias, as does the media, and you could argue that many of the theories coming out of academia these days are little more than opinion pieces, and again heavily biased.

tdgeek

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#3061135 10-Apr-2023 19:03

Technofreak:

As much about the Labour governments since 2017 as it is about the Chris Hipkins version.

Scary reading and paywalled unfortunately. The Herald should allow free access to this sort of reading.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/paul-glass-the-real-size-of-govt-debt-in-nz-stripped-of-accounting-tricks/T3YYKGRWQBANFO334PGJWJ4MRY/

Take away points

Previous governments had taken a prudent approach, this government's spending is unmatched.
Government debt has doubled since 2017.
$1700 per household went to the PGF, most of which has been wasted.
Covid relief fund of 70 billion, much of which wasn't spent on Covid but was hidden spending on pet projects
1.2 billion per annum being spent on consultants
15,000 more bureaucrats
The fuel subsidy is effectively borrowed money which has to be repaid.

Assuming there were no other factors... this is an election year, so should be a comfortable win by National as Luxon's ideas are superb, if not a landslide.

No, not taking the p1ss, numbers dont lie....

Rikkitic

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#3061138 10-Apr-2023 19:12

I also take hard numbers with a big grain of scepticism. There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Even objectively true numbers can easily be twisted to serve an agenda. I am inclined to place most faith in an argument that doesn't benefit the arguer in any obvious way. If a number of different people from different backgrounds generally agree on something , that is also a good indication that they may be right.

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Technofreak

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#3061188 10-Apr-2023 19:24

quickymart:

I agree there are lots of articles in the Herald that should be free - but an opinion piece from some nobody, who runs an investment firm and (no doubt) has a vested interest in National wining the next election?
I'm okay without reading what he thinks, thanks.

It doesn't hurt to read what others have to say even though their opinion may not align with yours. I read opinion pieces from both sides of the spectrum. I think it helps me keep a better balanced point of view. I'm reminded of the saying "There's none so blind as those that will not see".

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tdgeek

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#3061196 10-Apr-2023 19:38

Technofreak:

It doesn't hurt to read what others have to say even though their opinion may not align with yours. I read opinion pieces from both sides of the spectrum. I think it helps me keep a better balanced point of view. I'm reminded of the saying "There's none so blind as those that will not see".

Exactly

johno1234

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#3061311 11-Apr-2023 08:18

SirHumphreyAppleby:

quickymart:

I agree there are lots of articles in the Herald that should be free - but an opinion piece from some nobody, who runs an investment firm and (no doubt) has a vested interest in National wining the next election?
I'm okay without reading what he thinks, thanks.

I haven't read the article for his interpretation, but I appreciate the summary. It's difficult to argue with hard numbers.

While it would be great if people could come up with their own opinions, who should we listen to, if anyone? Politicians obviously have a bias, as does the media, and you could argue that many of the theories coming out of academia these days are little more than opinion pieces, and again heavily biased.

We should keep our minds, eyes and ears open, and listen to as much as we can stand, then do our own sifting and due diligence. The last thing we should ever do is allow politicians and other busybodies to tell us what we can and can't read or listen to.

johno1234

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#3061313 11-Apr-2023 08:21

Rikkitic:

I also take hard numbers with a big grain of scepticism. There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Even objectively true numbers can easily be twisted to serve an agenda. I am inclined to place most faith in an argument that doesn't benefit the arguer in any obvious way. If a number of different people from different backgrounds generally agree on something , that is also a good indication that they may be right.

Beware of pack mentality. Be it COVID conspiracy theorists or identity politics activists, they have a habit of snowballing, so an apparently popular 'consensus' immediately starts my bullshit meter beeping.

GV27

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#3061318 11-Apr-2023 08:33

Repeating things without much reflection is a bit of a hallmark of local media. There has been a shift to the idea that giving people a 'balanced' view just means sticking a mic in their face and letting them have a comment, and then printing it. Not exactly much higher purpose or 'speaking truth to power' when you're just letting people say whatever, be it absolute out-there wingnuts or people who are just basically spouting memes (remember how often we heard 'National slashed health spending' despite it increasing every single year they were in power?) and having it go completely unchallenged or unscrutinised.

The 'double cab FBT exemption' is another example of this. There isn't one.

johno1234

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#3061321 11-Apr-2023 08:42

GV27:

Repeating things without much reflection is a bit of a hallmark of local media. There has been a shift to the idea that giving people a 'balanced' view just means sticking a mic in their face and letting them have a comment, and then printing it. Not exactly much higher purpose or 'speaking truth to power' when you're just letting people say whatever, be it absolute out-there wingnuts or people who are just basically spouting memes (remember how often we heard 'National slashed health spending' despite it increasing every single year they were in power?) and having it go completely unchallenged or unscrutinised.

The 'double cab FBT exemption' is another example of this. There isn't one.

I'd prefer the media simply report what is said, rather than have them editorialise or frame it. The two main TV channels always cut to their "politics editor" or whatever who then mansplains it to the dumb-ass audience. The best TV news by far is Prime news. They just report it. No political editors to shape it into pre-chewed mush.

GV27

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#3061326 11-Apr-2023 09:06

johno1234:

I'd prefer the media simply report what is said, rather than have them editorialise or frame it. The two main TV channels always cut to their "politics editor" or whatever who then mansplains it to the dumb-ass audience. The best TV news by far is Prime news. They just report it. No political editors to shape it into pre-chewed mush.

That may have worked at one point, but given the enormous resources being poured into spin and comms at almost every level of government, and the willingness of both parties to do so over the years, I'd say that media has an obligation to actually check whether what is being said lines up with what actually happened.

Rikkitic

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#3061336 11-Apr-2023 09:34

GV27:

That may have worked at one point, but given the enormous resources being poured into spin and comms at almost every level of government, and the willingness of both parties to do so over the years, I'd say that media has an obligation to actually check whether what is being said lines up with what actually happened.

Save money, cut corners, copy and paste. Even media that want to do better are hampered by limited resources.

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