Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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Networkn
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#2910886 6-May-2022 12:07

GV27:

For me the thing that got me on this was the suggestion not having to pay for lunches for school was as much as a reward for good parents who would have done that by default as anything to do with crappy parents who aren't going to and never will.

So why shouldn't parents who are actually looking after their kids catch a break? The difference is kids actually get fed.

At the end of the day, there isn't a perfect system. How do you track such things?

I send my kids to school with a good lunch, what if I send them to school with a average lunch, or a poor lunch, vs no lunch? How much reward do you give parents for doing their actual job?

The reward I get for feeding my kids properly, is that my kids are fed properly. We are trying to help the kids who's parents can't or won't.

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#2910887 6-May-2022 12:12

GV27:

I don't think people appreciate just what a pickle NZ is in. This could get really really bad. NZ in the early 1990s was a dreary place after the BNZ crisis and I don't know if modern NZ could handle a prolonged period of stagflation and high unemployment.

Again GV27 well posted, I'm only quoting the above as most of the population seem oblivious to whats coming in the next 2-3 years

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GV27

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#2910890 6-May-2022 12:22

networkn:

At the end of the day, there isn't a perfect system. How do you track such things?

I send my kids to school with a good lunch, what if I send them to school with a average lunch, or a poor lunch, vs no lunch? How much reward do you give parents for doing their actual job?

The reward I get for feeding my kids properly, is that my kids are fed properly. We are trying to help the kids who's parents can't or won't.

That's sort of my point. If you're a good parent, a free school lunch is a bit of a win. If you're a crappy one, your kid doesn't suffer because you're not up to it.

Instead of approaching it as a subsidy for crap parents like some people make it out to be, it can be equally argued it's actually a subsidy for good parents too.

Like... at that point it just becomes win/win and most importantly for the kids as well. So that's why I'm in favour of it.

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#2910894 6-May-2022 12:30

GV27: And my point is that if that's of over-riding importance then there must be some other crap we can slash to find the money for it.

The elephant in the room as always is the incredible profits generated from real-estate for several years now.

On2or3wheels

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#2910896 6-May-2022 12:32

GV27:

I don't think people appreciate just what a pickle NZ is in. This could get really really bad. NZ in the early 1990s was a dreary place after the BNZ crisis and I don't know if modern NZ could handle a prolonged period of stagflation and high unemployment.

Why are we going to have high unemployment? Surely the fact we already have low unemployment now without international tourism means we should be fine?

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#2910947 6-May-2022 12:39

On2or3wheels:

Why are we going to have high unemployment? Surely the fact we already have low unemployment now without international tourism means we should be fine?

Businesses who have taken a pounding over the last few years may find it hard to convince customers to part with their cash. Bad if you're selling cars on credit, bad if you're convincing punters to part with $15 for a glass of beer, bad if your customers don't have any discretionary spend because they're tightening their belts. You can only take that for so long as a business before it's easier to do something else somewhere else, or just take an early retirement.

As for tourism - a lot of our major sources of tourism are also suffering from economic set-backs. So there may not be the sudden light-bulb orgy of tourism that I think some were hoping for.

Like I really hope that I'm wrong, but there's going to be a bunch of home owners staring down negative equity and they aren't going to be spending like they used to. Nor will there be any post-lockdown sugar rushes.

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#2911040 6-May-2022 13:45

On2or3wheels:

Why are we going to have high unemployment? Surely the fact we already have low unemployment now without international tourism means we should be fine?

Ok so "low unemployment" is a myth perpetuated by the fact that the definition of "unemployed" has moved. Unemployment is at a very low rate whilst jobseeker benefit numbers have increased by 53% since 2017

"However, drill down into Work and Income’s data and the wider picture is far less flattering. The quarterly fall is a drop in the bucket of the surge in benefit dependency under Labour’s watch over the past four years.

Currently, 368,172 Kiwis are the recipient of a main benefit, 11.7 per cent of the working-age population, whether it be Jobseeker Support, Sole Parent Support or Supported Living.

When Labour took office, there were 289,788 on a main benefit, or 9.7 per cent of the working-age population. The bulk of today’s beneficiaries are on Jobseeker Support, which has rocketed from 123,042 four years ago, to 187,989 today. That’s a 53 per cent increase. As a proportion of the working-age population, it has leapt from 4.1 per cent to 6.0 per cent.

I’ve always struggled to harness much respect for New Zealand’s official unemployment measuring stick, the Household Labour Survey. You may recall that Statistics New Zealand revealed in November that our official unemployment rate had cratered to 3.4 per cent in the September quarter – the lowest level since 2007. Cue the self-congratulatory press releases.

This indicator, which as the name suggests is survey-based, concluded that 98,000 Kiwis are officially classified as unemployed. They are not deemed as unemployed if they are not actively seeking employment."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/127578264/nzs-official-jobless-figures-are-abject-nonsense

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Rikkitic

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#2911044 6-May-2022 13:56

networkn:

I used to have (very wrong) strong views about this, where I felt it was wrong to feed kids as it was the parents job and they should make better choices.

Someone once said something to me, that hit me like a bolt of lightning.

"You can't punish kids, for their parents bad choices"

This entirely changed my perspective as it's totally 100% true. You don't let kids go hungry or without an education or without a dry clean home, because their parents spend money on cigarettes, drugs or other things.

I now support most initiatives that ensure that a kid gets a good education, including food at school taxpayer-funded if required.

It takes real rectitude to be willing to accept that you have been wrong about something you believed. Hats off to you.

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On2or3wheels

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#2911061 6-May-2022 14:38

JPNZ:

Ok so "low unemployment" is a myth perpetuated by the fact that the definition of "unemployed" has moved. Unemployment is at a very low rate whilst jobseeker benefit numbers have increased by 53% since 2017

Yes there's definitely a lot of people on benefit's, however there are a record number of jobs out there for people that DO want to work.
Maybe the jobseeker number is higher because they've moved people over to this to try & get them to work?

I wonder if they count the accommodation supplement as a benefit? I don't know anything about it but I could imagine many people needing something like this with the insane rents.

JPNZ

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#2911065 6-May-2022 14:46

On2or3wheels:

Yes there's definitely a lot of people on benefit's, however there are a record number of jobs out there for people that DO want to work.
Maybe the jobseeker number is higher because they've moved people over to this to try & get them to work?

I wonder if they count the accommodation supplement as a benefit? I don't know anything about it but I could imagine many people needing something like this with the insane rents.

No doubt there are many many jobs out there, it just makes no sense that Beneficiaries on Jobseeker are 53% higher yet unemployment is so low. The answer is as stated before when the government changed the definition of unemployment to "if you are on a jobseeker benefit but looking for work then your not classed as unemployed" In my opinion it should be the standard if you don't have a job then your unemployed.

The actual unemployment figure is much closer to 9%

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Rikkitic

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#2911080 6-May-2022 15:44

JPNZ: In my opinion it should be the standard if you don't have a job then your unemployed.

Then you need to define what you mean by a job. There are many people in unpaid employment doing worthy and essential work. It has even been suggested that the official economy would come to a screeching halt if all the volunteers picked up their tea cosies and went home. What about part-timers? Seasonal workers who earn enough to get through the year and don't bother finding other jobs? Women in traditional relationships who do housework all day and make the meals, greatly boosting hubby's productivity? If you are going to start slinging statistics around, you need to ensure they paint an accurate picture.

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JPNZ

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#2911084 6-May-2022 15:58

Rikkitic:

JPNZ: In my opinion it should be the standard if you don't have a job then your unemployed.

Then you need to define what you mean by a job. There are many people in unpaid employment doing worthy and essential work. It has even been suggested that the official economy would come to a screeching halt if all the volunteers picked up their tea cosies and went home. What about part-timers? Seasonal workers who earn enough to get through the year and don't bother finding other jobs? Women in traditional relationships who do housework all day and make the meals, greatly boosting hubby's productivity? If you are going to start slinging statistics around, you need to ensure they paint an accurate picture.

There is a reason I don't bother replying to your posts. In your own post above you even mention employment, where did I mention anything about being paid?

"There are many people in unpaid employment doing worthy and essential work" - That is a job

" What about part-timers?" - That is a job too

"Seasonal workers who earn enough to get through the year " surprise surprise that is also a job

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#2911099 6-May-2022 16:57

JPNZ:

There is a reason I don't bother replying to your posts. In your own post above you even mention employment, where did I mention anything about being paid?

"There are many people in unpaid employment doing worthy and essential work" - That is a job

" What about part-timers?" - That is a job too

"Seasonal workers who earn enough to get through the year " surprise surprise that is also a job

I don't care if you reply to my posts or not, but if you post in a public forum, don't be surprised if you get responses.

Your post states that if you don't have a job, you're unemployed. I corrected your apostrophe error. If no job means unemployment, then having a job must mean employment. According to multiple dictionary definitions, employment means getting paid. Since you mentioned unemployment, the reasonable inference is that you were contrasting that to paid employment. In easily understood words, you were mentioning payment in the context of employment.

Thank you for clarifying your definition of the term 'job'.

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gzt

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#2911678 8-May-2022 19:51

Budget announcements are starting leading up to May 19th. 600 million for law and order. Sets aside funding for police hiring to match population growth:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/05/budget-2022-government-announces-major-600m-package-aimed-at-tackling-new-zealand-crime.html

GV27

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#2911728 9-May-2022 06:58

gzt: Budget announcements are starting leading up to May 19th. 600 million for law and order. Sets aside funding for police hiring to match population growth:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/05/budget-2022-government-announces-major-600m-package-aimed-at-tackling-new-zealand-crime.html

Poto Williams makes a rare appearance in the lead-up to budget funding. I suppose we can look forward to this drip-feeding of announcements for the next week and a half in areas the government is taking hits on.

Not that everyone doesn't do this but it annoys the hell out of me. If you're going to announce one thing then just announce everything. What justification can there be, other than the pageantry of a speech on Budget Day?

Some political traditions are dumb as hell IMO.

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