Welcome to a new era of industrial action. Same as the last one.

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#2043749 25-Jun-2018 19:18

Geektastic: "More than 4000 Inland Revenue Department and Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment staff will go on strike next month."

Today's Herald.

IRD? REALLY? I can't get through to the pricklies at the best of times.

Handle9

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#2043758 25-Jun-2018 19:27

6FIEND:

Wiggum:

Sadly there are people in the private sector who are worse off than many of these public servants. All of them are being ignored, where are their increases? None of them are striking.

That is another salient point.

Public Sector Salaries were, on average, 34.6% higher than private sector salaries in 2017.

This is at best junk data - there is no normalisation by job family or any actual analysis.

The taxpayers union is in no way a credible source.

When you consider that most government jobs are either education (3-4 year degrees) health (3-7 year degrees) then of course there should be premium.

If you are going to use statistics please use ones that mean something rather than this crap.

GV27

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#2043776 25-Jun-2018 20:15

Handle9:

6FIEND:

Wiggum:

Sadly there are people in the private sector who are worse off than many of these public servants. All of them are being ignored, where are their increases? None of them are striking.

That is another salient point.

Public Sector Salaries were, on average, 34.6% higher than private sector salaries in 2017.

This is at best junk data - there is no normalisation by job family or any actual analysis.

The taxpayers union is in no way a credible source.

When you consider that most government jobs are either education (3-4 year degrees) health (3-7 year degrees) then of course there should be premium.

If you are going to use statistics please use ones that mean something rather than this crap.

Here's a meaningful one:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/23433/Wellingtons-pay-packet-bulges

Wellington seems very good at paying itself handsomely for telling other parts of the country what to do.

MikeB4

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#2043781 25-Jun-2018 20:27

Some relevant quotes would be useful.

Handle9

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#2043782 25-Jun-2018 20:28

GV27:

Here's a meaningful one:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/23433/Wellingtons-pay-packet-bulges

Wellington seems very good at paying itself handsomely for telling other parts of the country what to do.

An article from 2009. That's not particularly useful.

GV27

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#2043783 25-Jun-2018 20:32

Handle9:

GV27:

Here's a meaningful one:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/23433/Wellingtons-pay-packet-bulges

Wellington seems very good at paying itself handsomely for telling other parts of the country what to do.

An article from 2009. That's not particularly useful.

Based on data from the time Labour was last in power?

"Statistics New Zealand figures show incomes from wages, salaries and investment grew 9% nationwide in the year to June but they were more than double that in the Wellington region".

Handle9

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#2043785 25-Jun-2018 20:44

There is no context in either of these reports. They don’t compare job families or like skills.

The one from 2009 is even worse in that there is no separation for public service jobs or private jobs.

It’s fun to beat up public servants with pseudo statistics but it would be far more useful to have a meaningful thread.

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Pumpedd

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#2043786 25-Jun-2018 20:47

Handle9: There is no context in either of these reports. They don’t compare job families or like skills.

The one from 2009 is even worse in that there is no separation for public service jobs or private jobs.

It’s fun to beat up public servants with pseudo statistics but it would be far more useful to have a meaningful thread.

Instead of crying everyone down, why don't you provide us with some meaningful data?

6FIEND

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Ultimate Geek
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#2043788 25-Jun-2018 20:51

Another example of how disastrously inept and utterly clueless the Labour-lead coalition are on this issue...

Here is Ardern herself, speaking in the Leader's debate last September:

Questioned directly by moderator Mike Hosking whether New Zealand could be in for national strikes, Ardern had her most emphatic moment: "No. We. Will. Not."

English's criticisms were antiquated. "It's not going to happen on my watch."

Yet, 9 months into her term we have more people striking than under the 9 years of the previous government.

MikeB4

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#2043789 25-Jun-2018 20:51

Pumpedd:

Handle9: There is no context in either of these reports. They don’t compare job families or like skills.

The one from 2009 is even worse in that there is no separation for public service jobs or private jobs.

It’s fun to beat up public servants with pseudo statistics but it would be far more useful to have a meaningful thread.

Instead of crying everyone down, why don't you provide us with some meaningful data?

this thread has turned the same as the Jacinda Ardern thread, AKA Stuff comments. Over and out

6FIEND

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#2043802 25-Jun-2018 21:20

BTW @Handle9 - feel free to start your own thread about Public Service salaries if you so desire.

However - from the State Services Commission's Public Service Workforce Data Report

The HRC survey provides information on the base salaries of staff in the Public Service as at 30 June
each year. In 2017, the average annual salary was $75,416, an increase of 2.3% from the previous year.

Contrast with Statistics NZ's data source, showing a 2017 Average Weekly income of $1,118 (annual salary $58,136) across both sectors...

There's a $17,280 premium for the public service - 29.7% greater than the national average.

It's far from "junk data".

Wiggum

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#2043804 25-Jun-2018 21:21

Handle9:

The taxpayers union is in no way a credible source.

Frankly I would rather believe what these people say about our tax spending/budget than government itself. Our own government is not even a credible source these days. What they say the one day, is very different to what happens the next day.

Wiggum

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#2043805 25-Jun-2018 21:23

6FIEND:

Another example of how disastrously inept and utterly clueless the Labour-lead coalition are on this issue...

Here is Ardern herself, speaking in the Leader's debate last September:

Questioned directly by moderator Mike Hosking whether New Zealand could be in for national strikes, Ardern had her most emphatic moment: "No. We. Will. Not."

English's criticisms were antiquated. "It's not going to happen on my watch."

Yet, 9 months into her term we have more people striking than under the 9 years of the previous government.

I would love to see some stats for 2008. New Zealand was in a recession (labours last year in power), strikes were also full on. What sort of person would strike during an economic recession??

Handle9

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#2043820 25-Jun-2018 21:40

6FIEND:

BTW @Handle9 - feel free to start your own thread about Public Service salaries if you so desire.

However - from the State Services Commission's Public Service Workforce Data Report

The HRC survey provides information on the base salaries of staff in the Public Service as at 30 June
each year. In 2017, the average annual salary was $75,416, an increase of 2.3% from the previous year.

Contrast with Statistics NZ's data source, showing a 2017 Average Weekly income of $1,118 (annual salary $58,136) across both sectors...

There's a $17,280 premium for the public service - 29.7% greater than the national average.

It's far from "junk data".

So to compare a teacher or a nurse's salary to that over a cleaner is a valid comparison? IMO that is nonsense.

Look at the numbers in the report you linked to: the roles listed are largely professional roles. These should be relatively well paid compared to unskilled manual roles.

If there is evidence that shows generally public service IT workers are paid 25% more than in the private sector then that would be meaningful. The 29.7% number you are quoting is just clickbait.

Personally I believe that most people in the public and private sectors work hard. There are plenty of exceptions but I don't believe that most people working in public sector roles are lazy. That hasn't been my experience.

I'm not the target demo for being overly sympathetic to unions (senior manager in a large multinational corporation) but the hysteria and attacks on people who are doing their best and trying to get a better deal is over the top.

Geektastic

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#2043828 25-Jun-2018 21:51

Handle9:

6FIEND:

BTW @Handle9 - feel free to start your own thread about Public Service salaries if you so desire.

However - from the State Services Commission's Public Service Workforce Data Report

The HRC survey provides information on the base salaries of staff in the Public Service as at 30 June
each year. In 2017, the average annual salary was $75,416, an increase of 2.3% from the previous year.

Contrast with Statistics NZ's data source, showing a 2017 Average Weekly income of $1,118 (annual salary $58,136) across both sectors...

There's a $17,280 premium for the public service - 29.7% greater than the national average.

It's far from "junk data".

So to compare a teacher or a nurse's salary to that over a cleaner is a valid comparison? IMO that is nonsense.

Look at the numbers in the report you linked to: the roles listed are largely professional roles. These should be relatively well paid compared to unskilled manual roles.

If there is evidence that shows generally public service IT workers are paid 25% more than in the private sector then that would be meaningful. The 29.7% number you are quoting is just clickbait.

Personally I believe that most people in the public and private sectors work hard. There are plenty of exceptions but I don't believe that most people working in public sector roles are lazy. That hasn't been my experience.

I'm not the target demo for being overly sympathetic to unions (senior manager in a large multinational corporation) but the hysteria and attacks on people who are doing their best and trying to get a better deal is over the top.

If you are a public servant, going on strike and inconveniencing the people who pay your salary is not really, IMO, a sensible way to try and get a "better deal"...

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