Homeless in NZ

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#1827208 22-Jul-2017 17:49

MikeB4: @ Wiggum I have spent most of my working life working in social services as well as many years doing voluntary social sevices

So that makes you right?

How about I talk to this woman again, and see if she will be fine for me to PM you her details. You seem adamant its not true, so maybe you can help.

Believe me, she has tried every avenue possible. WINZ solution is for her to sell some of her stuff first, including putting her house on the market.

MikeB4

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#1827213 22-Jul-2017 17:53

Because various sections of the SSA and relate legislation, the related official policy manuals daily reading. Years of dealing with these issues frontline, in management, in support. But you continue to make things up, it does not alter the real facts.

tdgeek

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#1827216 22-Jul-2017 17:55

Here is from MSD

Help with costs Rent, board or owning a home

If you need help to pay your on-going costs of rent, board or the costs of owning a home, you may be able to get an Accommodation Supplement. You don't have to be on a benefit to get this payment.

end of quote

So, in addition to welfare, such as sickness or unemployment, if you own your own hime, you can also apply for a supplement for the mortgage.

https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/eligibility/living-expenses/housing.html

Wiggum

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#1827219 22-Jul-2017 18:00

tdgeek:

Here is from MSD

Help with costs Rent, board or owning a home

If you need help to pay your on-going costs of rent, board or the costs of owning a home, you may be able to get an Accommodation Supplement. You don't have to be on a benefit to get this payment.

end of quote

So, in addition to welfare, such as sickness or unemployment, if you own your own hime, you can also apply for a supplement for the mortgage.

https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/eligibility/living-expenses/housing.html

You missed this part

It also depends on:

how much you and your spouse or partner earn
any money or assets you and your spouse or partner have.

A house is an asset if its fully paid. If you paying it off its a liability (which may qualify, but I am not sure)

Sam91

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#1827238 22-Jul-2017 18:03

Wiggum:

Fred99:

Wiggum:

We need to get more people into higher paid jobs.

Or pay more highly for jobs that they're already doing.

The concept that we should "upskill everybody" to enable them to earn like orthodontists and merchant bankers falls apart when there's also a need for people to drive buses, stock supermarket shelves, and tend to the gardens of the rich. When wages paid at that level aren't "liveable" - then society - as we know it - will fail.

I disagree.

Those jobs should never be seen as permanent. I will use the "toilet cleaner" as an argument. This is not a highly skilled job, are you proposing we pay cleaners/toilet cleaners more money? Higher the minimum income some more? Bottom line is this is a very basic job, anybody can do it. Keep the pay low so that these people in these low end jobs have some goals to work themselves out of it.

These jobs have to get done. We cant look at these jobs and say that its unfare for these people to not be able to afford a house etc. We all have access to the system in NZ. Anybody willing to do it, can go and upsill themselves. (nterest free?)

There really is little excuse for those that don't have good jobs. The proof is in the immigration numbers, we short skilled in NZ, and we have to imprt skills from all over the world. If more people worked/tried harder to get somewhere, it would even help with the immigration problem.

wages at the very bottom need to be just a little bit better than being on the benefit.

For many people in those kinds of jobs, no matter how hard they work, they will forever be trapped in that income bracket. It's easy to suggest they take advantage of interest free loans and get educated, but that's not always possible when you're barely making ends meet and you have mouths to feed.

I recognise that I've been dealt a good hand in life, I've had a great family with the means to support me through studies, which will enable me to pave a good career pathway for myself. I'm also aware that I could've been born into intergenerational poverty and a terrible family unit. If this was the case, I'm sure it would've been a struggle. I'd likely be juggling a few jobs as well as studying full time. As a result, I probably wouldn't end up with top grades, which would then limit my career prospects. Instead of getting an excellent graduate job, I may not even get one. I think many people underestimate the butterfly effect of being born into a poor family, and overestimate the ease of pulling yourself out of poverty.

tdgeek

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#1827239 22-Jul-2017 18:12

Wiggum:

You missed this part

It also depends on:

how much you and your spouse or partner earn
any money or assets you and your spouse or partner have.

A house is an asset if its fully paid. If you paying it off its a liability (which may qualify, but I am not sure)

Cash and non cash assets matter. The non cash assets such as Land and Buildings exclude the home. You missed that. A house is an asset whether its fully paid or not, thats called equity. It doesnt matter.

Your lady has no income? She relies on handouts and a paper run? If she has cash or non cash assets (home excluded) that may well affect her ability to get a benefit. What assets does she have? I gather she has no income, or does her and/or her partner have an income?

I gather from your post she has no income at all. So the handouts and paper run pay for rates, insurance, power, food, etc? There is something missing here.

Wiggum

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#1827245 22-Jul-2017 18:24

tdgeek:

Wiggum:

You missed this part

It also depends on:

how much you and your spouse or partner earn
any money or assets you and your spouse or partner have.

A house is an asset if its fully paid. If you paying it off its a liability (which may qualify, but I am not sure)

Cash and non cash assets matter. The non cash assets such as Land and Buildings exclude the home. You missed that. A house is an asset whether its fully paid or not, thats called equity. It doesnt matter.

Your lady has no income? She relies on handouts and a paper run? If she has cash or non cash assets (home excluded) that may well affect her ability to get a benefit. What assets does she have? I gather she has no income, or does her and/or her partner have an income?

I gather from your post she has no income at all. So the handouts and paper run pay for rates, insurance, power, food, etc? There is something missing here.

Do you want her details too? You guys are arguing now at at how the system works for everyone, she is covered etc, look here is the proof online! Yet few posts back you saying how broken the system is. Why are you so confident that this woman should be receiving help? Believe me she is NOT!!! I am sure I can find some online forms that will show you that will contradict your view on people having to sleep in cars.

This lady has some savings too, which I imagine covers other things like rates and the odd bit of petrol. But its not enough so the paper run probably helps to cover some of the extras.

My point is that she is poor, and no better off than those on the benefit. Certainly not better off because she owns a home.

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MikeB4

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#1827247 22-Jul-2017 18:25

Wiggum:
tdgeek:

Here is from MSD

Help with costs Rent, board or owning a home

If you need help to pay your on-going costs of rent, board or the costs of owning a home, you may be able to get an Accommodation Supplement. You don't have to be on a benefit to get this payment.

end of quote

So, in addition to welfare, such as sickness or unemployment, if you own your own hime, you can also apply for a supplement for the mortgage.

https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/eligibility/living-expenses/housing.html

You missed this part

It also depends on:

how much you and your spouse or partner earn

any money or assets you and your spouse or partner have.

A house is an asset if its fully paid. If you paying it off its a liability (which may qualify, but I am not sure)

The property you use as your home is not taken into account as a chargeable asset or constructive income.

Wiggum

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#1827248 22-Jul-2017 18:27

MikeB4:
Wiggum:

tdgeek:

Here is from MSD

Help with costs Rent, board or owning a home

If you need help to pay your on-going costs of rent, board or the costs of owning a home, you may be able to get an Accommodation Supplement. You don't have to be on a benefit to get this payment.

end of quote

So, in addition to welfare, such as sickness or unemployment, if you own your own hime, you can also apply for a supplement for the mortgage.

https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/eligibility/living-expenses/housing.html

You missed this part

It also depends on:

how much you and your spouse or partner earn

any money or assets you and your spouse or partner have.

A house is an asset if its fully paid. If you paying it off its a liability (which may qualify, but I am not sure)

The property you use as your home is not taken into account as a chargeable asset or constructive income.

Thats rubbish.

MikeB4

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#1827249 22-Jul-2017 18:29

Oh okay must have made thousands of in correct decisions and adjudicated many many appeals wrongly

tdgeek

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#1827251 22-Jul-2017 18:32

Wiggum:

Do you want her details too? You guys are arguing now at at how the system works for everyone, she is covered etc, look here is the proof online! Yet few posts back you saying how broken the system is. Why are you so confident that this woman should be receiving help? Believe me she is NOT!!! I am sure I can find some online forms that will show you that will contradict your view on people having to sleep in cars.

This lady has some savings too, which I imagine covers other things like rates and the odd bit of petrol. But its not enough so the paper run probably helps to cover some of the extras.

My point is that she is poor, and no better off than those on the benefit. Certainly not better off because she owns a home.

No arguing here. Maybe you take a break. Merely correcting your posts.

If she has no income, she is eligible for a benefit. I doubt some savings will matter, the family home certainly doesnt. But if she is not eligible for a benefit, its not due to the house.

MikeB4

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#1827253 22-Jul-2017 18:37

Cash assets count against supplimentary allowances. The interest earned is charged as income against a primary benefit after taking off the appropriate exemption and applying the appropriate abatement rates.
House one lives in is not a chargeable asset. If it is sublet or boarders there is income chargeable again after exemptions and abatement rates

gzt

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#1827257 22-Jul-2017 18:55

Wiggum:
MikeB4: @ Wiggum I have spent most of my working life working in social services as well as many years doing voluntary social sevices

So that makes you right?

Experience usually does.

Either way this goes, can you explain how on earth this relates to the topic?

tdgeek

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#1827259 22-Jul-2017 18:57

gzt:
Wiggum:

MikeB4: @ Wiggum I have spent most of my working life working in social services as well as many years doing voluntary social sevices

So that makes you right?

Experience usually does.

Either way this goes, can you explain how on earth this relates to the topic?

I can answer that.

Its because homeowners are worse off than the homeless. Apparently.

mattwnz

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#1827260 22-Jul-2017 19:03

MikeB4: Cash assets count against supplimentary allowances. The interest earned is charged as income against a primary benefit after taking off the appropriate exemption and applying the appropriate abatement rates.
House one lives in is not a chargeable asset. If it is sublet or boarders there is income chargeable again after exemptions and abatement rates

Sounds like it gives yet another advantage to owning a house, over other forms of investment. Someone could potentially be an accidental millionaire on paper by owning a house in Auckland, but have no earning ability. I wonder if taxpayers would consider it fair that a millionaire should be getting benefits, rather than selling it, and perhpas moving to a cheaper region when a house may cot $300k? Potentially they could get a good income from investing the money if they did sell it. Sometimes I do wonder if some of these benefits should be loans, such as they are for students who are under 25.

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