Why I wont vote National

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Networkn
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#1870741 22-Sep-2017 09:47

tdgeek:

frednz:

A tax cut across the board is fair, just as paying NZ Super to everyone is fair. Why shouldn't people who work around the clock to earn enough to support their families be rewarded so they can afford to buy electric cars that will help mitigate the effects of climate change? Why shouldn't doctors and dentists, for example, who give up huge chunks of their lives and huge chunks of money to get qualified, be rewarded with a tax cut.

The Robin Hood policies of Labour and the Greens are out of place in modern society.

It's not everyone who says National is telling lies about Labour's proposed tax increases, it's only those who don't understand simple maths.

You have answered the query perfectly

There is no place for the have nots, pity if many of them cant get out of that, I guess that's tough bikkies....

Signed, another National voter, one who feels a helping hand is worth more than a reward for me to pay my Sky bill

Agreed, as another National voter who doesn't need/want tax cuts would rather see it spent on Education and Healthcare.

frednz

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#1870793 22-Sep-2017 10:03

networkn:

tdgeek:

frednz:

A tax cut across the board is fair, just as paying NZ Super to everyone is fair. Why shouldn't people who work around the clock to earn enough to support their families be rewarded so they can afford to buy electric cars that will help mitigate the effects of climate change? Why shouldn't doctors and dentists, for example, who give up huge chunks of their lives and huge chunks of money to get qualified, be rewarded with a tax cut.

The Robin Hood policies of Labour and the Greens are out of place in modern society.

It's not everyone who says National is telling lies about Labour's proposed tax increases, it's only those who don't understand simple maths.

You have answered the query perfectly

There is no place for the have nots, pity if many of them cant get out of that, I guess that's tough bikkies....

Signed, another National voter, one who feels a helping hand is worth more than a reward for me to pay my Sky bill

Agreed, as another National voter who doesn't need/want tax cuts would rather see it spent on Education and Healthcare.

It's not all people who earn over $52K per year who are super wealthy and "don't need tax cuts"! If Labour and the Greens were to have a "means test" (which they would love to do) then you might be able to "more fairly" penalise those who have devoted their lives to helping New Zealanders by way of their hard earned knowledge and capital which is good for everyone and also the economy.

Take a Doctor, for example. It takes years of study and a student loan of $100,000 + to get qualified. Then, a young doctor works 70 or 80 hours a week in hospitals to help everyone. It takes years before a doctor has any money and when this finally might happen, why shouldn't they be rewarded with an across the board tax cut (instead of Labour's proposed cancelling of National's tax cuts)?

In any event, the so-called "have-nots" have been very well looked after in this country compared with how they would be in a lot of other countries. I have a lot of sympathy for those who struggle to make ends meet, but the people who are better off in this country have already contributed heavily and funded the plethora of benefits that they are paid.

networkn

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#1870806 22-Sep-2017 10:08

frednz:

networkn:

tdgeek:

frednz:

A tax cut across the board is fair, just as paying NZ Super to everyone is fair. Why shouldn't people who work around the clock to earn enough to support their families be rewarded so they can afford to buy electric cars that will help mitigate the effects of climate change? Why shouldn't doctors and dentists, for example, who give up huge chunks of their lives and huge chunks of money to get qualified, be rewarded with a tax cut.

The Robin Hood policies of Labour and the Greens are out of place in modern society.

It's not everyone who says National is telling lies about Labour's proposed tax increases, it's only those who don't understand simple maths.

You have answered the query perfectly

There is no place for the have nots, pity if many of them cant get out of that, I guess that's tough bikkies....

Signed, another National voter, one who feels a helping hand is worth more than a reward for me to pay my Sky bill

Agreed, as another National voter who doesn't need/want tax cuts would rather see it spent on Education and Healthcare.

It's not all people who earn over $52K per year who are super wealthy and "don't need tax cuts"! If Labour and the Greens were to have a "means test" (which they would love to do) then you might be able to "more fairly" penalise those who have devoted their lives to helping New Zealanders by way of their hard earned knowledge and capital which is good for everyone and also the economy.

Take a Doctor, for example. It takes years of study and a student loan of $100,000 + to get qualified. Then, a young doctor works 70 or 80 hours a week in hospitals to help everyone. It takes years before a doctor has any money and when this finally might happen, why shouldn't they be rewarded with an across the board tax cut (instead of Labour's proposed cancelling of National's tax cuts)?

In any event, the so-called "have-nots" have been very well looked after in this country compared with how they would be in a lot of other countries. I have a lot of sympathy for those who struggle to make ends meet, but the people who are better off in this country have already contributed heavily and funded the plethora of benefits that they are paid.

Well, I am married to a Doctor who did all of what you are saying. She voted National, and I know she holds the same view as me, that $1000 extra each in our household, whilst nice, wouldn't be the difference to whether we live under a bridge in a cardboard box. She would rather see it in Education and Healthcare.

I am a business owner and employer, I have worked very long and very hard to get where I am. I feel $1000 would be better spent on optimized and well run healthcare services.

Pumpedd

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#1870813 22-Sep-2017 10:15

National are making a huge thing about this so called $1,000 when its just $20/week. I did decide and I voted National yesterday..it was a hard call as I too would far sooner see this tax cut go to the needy who have been largely ignored under national. Likewise Health has taken a massive hit under National where they have not kept up expenditure with immigration or an aging population. I also am of the opinion that DHB's need a massive reorganisation as they have become a bulging industry.

frednz

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#1870829 22-Sep-2017 10:21

networkn:

frednz:

networkn:

tdgeek:

frednz:

A tax cut across the board is fair, just as paying NZ Super to everyone is fair. Why shouldn't people who work around the clock to earn enough to support their families be rewarded so they can afford to buy electric cars that will help mitigate the effects of climate change? Why shouldn't doctors and dentists, for example, who give up huge chunks of their lives and huge chunks of money to get qualified, be rewarded with a tax cut.

The Robin Hood policies of Labour and the Greens are out of place in modern society.

It's not everyone who says National is telling lies about Labour's proposed tax increases, it's only those who don't understand simple maths.

You have answered the query perfectly

There is no place for the have nots, pity if many of them cant get out of that, I guess that's tough bikkies....

Signed, another National voter, one who feels a helping hand is worth more than a reward for me to pay my Sky bill

Agreed, as another National voter who doesn't need/want tax cuts would rather see it spent on Education and Healthcare.

It's not all people who earn over $52K per year who are super wealthy and "don't need tax cuts"! If Labour and the Greens were to have a "means test" (which they would love to do) then you might be able to "more fairly" penalise those who have devoted their lives to helping New Zealanders by way of their hard earned knowledge and capital which is good for everyone and also the economy.

Take a Doctor, for example. It takes years of study and a student loan of $100,000 + to get qualified. Then, a young doctor works 70 or 80 hours a week in hospitals to help everyone. It takes years before a doctor has any money and when this finally might happen, why shouldn't they be rewarded with an across the board tax cut (instead of Labour's proposed cancelling of National's tax cuts)?

In any event, the so-called "have-nots" have been very well looked after in this country compared with how they would be in a lot of other countries. I have a lot of sympathy for those who struggle to make ends meet, but the people who are better off in this country have already contributed heavily and funded the plethora of benefits that they are paid.

Well, I am married to a Doctor who did all of what you are saying. She voted National, and I know she holds the same view as me, that $1000 extra each in our household, whilst nice, wouldn't be the difference to whether we live under a bridge in a cardboard box. She would rather see it in Education and Healthcare.

I am a business owner and employer, I have worked very long and very hard to get where I am. I feel $1000 would be better spent on optimized and well run healthcare services.

Good for you, then you should vote for Labour or the Greens, that's your choice. But, if you did vote National and did get the legislated tax cuts, there's nothing to stop you donating money to various charities that support education and healthcare services. Or you could buy a nice new electric car and do your bit for the environment. Or, if you have children who are struggling, you could donate your tax cuts to them so they don't have to claim so many benefits!

MikeB4

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#1870836 22-Sep-2017 10:25

networkn:

Well, I am married to a Doctor who did all of what you are saying. She voted National, and I know she holds the same view as me, that $1000 extra each in our household, whilst nice, wouldn't be the difference to whether we live under a bridge in a cardboard box. She would rather see it in Education and Healthcare.

I am a business owner and employer, I have worked very long and very hard to get where I am. I feel $1000 would be better spent on optimized and well run healthcare services.

I like this a lot

Geektastic

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#1870871 22-Sep-2017 11:26

I'm generally in favour of any tax cut. It should IMV be the number one goal of any Finance Minister to cut taxes wherever and whenever possible. Work should be rewarded and people should generally rely on themselves as much as possible, and governments should encourage that.

However, cuts should be big enough to notice. This one is not even enough to buy a new iPhone.

I'm reminded of a large company I worked for in the UK who could not understand why their amazing new bonus scheme for the 5500 employees failed to create the wave of motivation and action they assumed it would, when the maximum payout if every condition was met (which would never have happened) was about $700 per employee. It just wasn't enough. As one colleague pointed out to a Director when he visited our office to discuss it, "My wife spends that in 2 weeks in the supermarket! I'm not going to work 20% longer hours etc just for that small amount of money. Put another zero on the end and I will."

If the cuts were worth $5,000 a year, I would be looking forward to a fiscally useful boost. As it is, not so much, so spend it elsewhere if you want to, as long as you get VFM for it and don't just waste it on silly programs invented by PC beardies with nothing better to do.

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MikeB4

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#1870885 22-Sep-2017 11:40

I voted National but i believe there should be tax cuts now. When there is the level of homelessness, poverty, insufficent food and access to health that NZ currently has the money should be dirrected there.

tdgeek

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#1870889 22-Sep-2017 11:45

MikeB4: I voted National but i believe there should be tax cuts now. When there is the level of homelessness, poverty, insufficent food and access to health that NZ currently has the money should be dirrected there.

I agree, but $20 per week for everyone? Maybe $60 per week for a needy few IMHO

networkn

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#1870895 22-Sep-2017 11:51

tdgeek:

MikeB4: I voted National but i believe there should be tax cuts now. When there is the level of homelessness, poverty, insufficent food and access to health that NZ currently has the money should be dirrected there.

I agree, but $20 per week for everyone? Maybe $60 per week for a needy few IMHO

I am not sure how exactly it should be done, but I categorically have an issue with $60 more *cash* being given out like that.

Providing $40-60 more per week in "value" would be better.

tdgeek

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#1870902 22-Sep-2017 12:09

networkn:

tdgeek:

MikeB4: I voted National but i believe there should be tax cuts now. When there is the level of homelessness, poverty, insufficent food and access to health that NZ currently has the money should be dirrected there.

I agree, but $20 per week for everyone? Maybe $60 per week for a needy few IMHO

I am not sure how exactly it should be done, but I categorically have an issue with $60 more *cash* being given out like that.

Providing $40-60 more per week in "value" would be better.

Couldnt agree more. I have also wondered why beneficiaries dont get food stamps like they do in the US, or these days, an EFTPOS card that cannot be used for booze and smokes, with a small cash amount they can do what they like with. As to value I assume you mean action? I do too, the whole benefit thing needs to be re written. Take solid care of the needy, and bugger the ones that rip it off /rantover We pay too much for too many that arent needy they are just lazy, and that gets in the way of the needy

Pumpedd

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#1870985 22-Sep-2017 14:31

tdgeek:

networkn:

tdgeek:

MikeB4: I voted National but i believe there should be tax cuts now. When there is the level of homelessness, poverty, insufficent food and access to health that NZ currently has the money should be dirrected there.

I agree, but $20 per week for everyone? Maybe $60 per week for a needy few IMHO

I am not sure how exactly it should be done, but I categorically have an issue with $60 more *cash* being given out like that.

Providing $40-60 more per week in "value" would be better.

Couldnt agree more. I have also wondered why beneficiaries dont get food stamps like they do in the US, or these days, an EFTPOS card that cannot be used for booze and smokes, with a small cash amount they can do what they like with. As to value I assume you mean action? I do too, the whole benefit thing needs to be re written. Take solid care of the needy, and bugger the ones that rip it off /rantover We pay too much for too many that arent needy they are just lazy, and that gets in the way of the needy

WINZ have a eftpos card as you have said, that is used for emergency grants. WINZ load it after proof of hardship and it can only be used for certain things. If not used after 48 hours it is wiped. An example of this is for a emergency food grants..but the beneficiary has to prove a zero bank balance first and the grant is maxed at $200/year.

Fred99

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#1871004 22-Sep-2017 14:42

Pumpedd:

tdgeek:

networkn:

tdgeek:

MikeB4: I voted National but i believe there should be tax cuts now. When there is the level of homelessness, poverty, insufficent food and access to health that NZ currently has the money should be dirrected there.

I agree, but $20 per week for everyone? Maybe $60 per week for a needy few IMHO

I am not sure how exactly it should be done, but I categorically have an issue with $60 more *cash* being given out like that.

Providing $40-60 more per week in "value" would be better.

Couldnt agree more. I have also wondered why beneficiaries dont get food stamps like they do in the US, or these days, an EFTPOS card that cannot be used for booze and smokes, with a small cash amount they can do what they like with. As to value I assume you mean action? I do too, the whole benefit thing needs to be re written. Take solid care of the needy, and bugger the ones that rip it off /rantover We pay too much for too many that arent needy they are just lazy, and that gets in the way of the needy

WINZ have a eftpos card as you have said, that is used for emergency grants. WINZ load it after proof of hardship and it can only be used for certain things. If not used after 48 hours it is wiped. An example of this is for a emergency food grants..but the beneficiary has to prove a zero bank balance first and the grant is maxed at $200/year.

I just can't imagine how humiliating and destructive to self-esteem it must be to have to go cap in hand to a government bureaucrat - who has the discretionary power to decide whether you're worthy.

We have got this whole "welfare" thing wrong in so many ways.

networkn

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#1871029 22-Sep-2017 14:51

Fred99:

I just can't imagine how humiliating and destructive to self-esteem it must be to have to go cap in hand to a government bureaucrat - who has the discretionary power to decide whether you're worthy.

We have got this whole "welfare" thing wrong in so many ways.

Yeah, I agree about humiliation. We were talking about this over lunch today.

I do wonder however, what your alternative suggestion is?

Welfare is supposed to be a short-term thing for the VAST majority of people.

Fred99

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#1871048 22-Sep-2017 15:07

networkn:

Fred99:

I just can't imagine how humiliating and destructive to self-esteem it must be to have to go cap in hand to a government bureaucrat - who has the discretionary power to decide whether you're worthy.

We have got this whole "welfare" thing wrong in so many ways.

Yeah, I agree about humiliation. We were talking about this over lunch today.

I do wonder however, what your alternative suggestion is?

Welfare is supposed to be a short-term thing for the VAST majority of people.

I think we either need to go down the route of a UBI, but probably also need to create jobs for those who'll probably never be "competitively productive" - but don't necessarily deserve to be condemned to awful lives.

Not jobs "planting trees and picking up rubbish" - but real jobs for real pay providing a sense of purpose - and hope.

I don't think the free-enterprise system is going to be able to provide this - we passed the point of no return in our race to the bottom when we outsourced basically all manufacturing to the lowest wage cost providers. Next it's robots.

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