NZ Election 2020

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Awrrr
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#2540262 13-Aug-2020 14:52

Can we not agree to just designate the leader of the opposition 'Crusher'? Or maybe 'Jaws'? JC makes me uncomfortable, for some reason.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeAqua

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#2540264 13-Aug-2020 14:55

Hemi88: The talk about masks and to use the app was talk about for the las two months we even had Chris hipkins and dr Bloomfield were asking for more people to get test for a long time it got more frequent we all hell broke loose in Melbourne

There were a couple of warning signs: -

A person from NZ turning up positive in Korea - attributed to transit through SIN

A person from NZ turning up positive in Sydney (stuff article August 01) That seemed to slip under the radar, and no attribution in the article.

Mike

MikeAqua

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#2540266 13-Aug-2020 14:57

Rikkitic:

Can we not agree to just designate the leader of the opposition 'Crusher'? Or maybe 'Jaws'? JC makes me uncomfortable, for some reason.

We aren't supposed to use nicknames at all. Last time I used one it was pointed out that this was contrary to FUG.

Mike

MikeAqua

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#2540267 13-Aug-2020 15:00

Apparently there was an anti-lockdown protest in Whangarei today, and they are only in L2.

I hope they kept 2m apart from strangers.

Mike

antonknee

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#2540279 13-Aug-2020 15:13

MikeAqua:

Hypothetically: If we are seeing a very serious outbreak and things go pear shaped is that good or bad for the incumbent government?

If things go pear shaped, it can only be bad. But realistically where does that vote go in that case? Will people vote for National given their revolving door leadership, general incompetence, conspiracy ramblings, and lack of policy? I'm not sure ACT or the Greens are that palatable to the average voter and NZ First seem to be very unpopular. New Conservatives? Seems unlikely given how unheard of they are and their policy positions will be unpopular with much of the country. TOP and Maori Party are (perhaps unfairly) perceived as being suited for a narrow market. NZPP/Advance NZ are literal lunatics.

Handle9

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#2540288 13-Aug-2020 15:21

networkn
A lot of you seem to be unable to separate the behaviour from the people exhibiting it.

Let's be fair, neither can you.

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Handle9

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#2540291 13-Aug-2020 15:26

Rikkitic:
Can we not agree to just designate the leader of the opposition 'Crusher'? Or maybe 'Jaws'? JC makes me uncomfortable, for some reason.

Only if you want people calling Ardern all the delightful nicknames the right give her.

Fair is fair.

Handle9

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#2540295 13-Aug-2020 15:32

networkn:
Long before it was raised by National, the way the messaging changed to mask-wearing, the warnings of a second wave and the entire focus toward preparing for a second wave seemed "off" to me after 100 days of no community transmission. Out and about with clients in that time, it was mentioned or discussed by them all more or less asking the same questions or drawing the conclusions. We also started getting significant increases in calls to ensure remote access was working etc.. I don't think you have to be a nutter to at least *wonder* if they knew of something to indicate the additional warnings that went out all of a sudden. If it's all a coincidence then at least the Government is on record of saying so. Asking the question isn't unreasonable in my opinion, it's clearly a question plenty of people had.

I think JC has every right to be unhappy she wasn't fully briefed.

I wasn't sure what they wanted to achieve with their commentary on the PM fronting briefings.

I feel it's entirely reasonable for the leader of the opposition to ask the Government to consider postponing the Election.

A lot of you seem to be unable to separate the behaviour from the people exhibiting it.

If the roles were reversed Collins would, correctly, point out that there is no obligation for the government to consult or fully brief her. By lying about the caretaker convention she gives up any moral high ground. The conspiracy theorist crap is the same. It's totally disingenuous to suggest "it's just asking questions." It's promoting conspiracy theories to undermine confidence in the health response.

You've danced around in the same way above it but do you believe that the government knew there was an outbreak and was hiding it?

MikeAqua

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#2540328 13-Aug-2020 16:17

Handle9:
You've danced around in the same way above it but do you believe that the government knew there was an outbreak and was hiding it?

I'm happy to put my neck on the line.

I think the govt had some cause for concern but didn't want to be the bearers of bad until they had to. Hence they did all the preparation messaging they could without "saying the excrement is headed toward the fan".

Mike

networkn

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#2540330 13-Aug-2020 16:21

MikeAqua:

Handle9:
You've danced around in the same way above it but do you believe that the government knew there was an outbreak and was hiding it?

I'm happy to put my neck on the line.

I think the govt had some cause for concern but didn't want to be the bearers of bad until they had to. Hence they did all the preparation messaging they could without "saying the excrement is headed toward the fan".

Yup, I was trying to figure out how to put it, and that's close enough to what I was going to say.

Handle9

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#2540331 13-Aug-2020 16:22

David Farrier, who has spent a fair bit of timing reporting on conspiracy theorists, has written about the corrosive effect of the conspiracy theorist line being peddled by National. It's worth a read.

https://webworm.substack.com/p/im-just-outlining-facts-watching

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Handle9

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#2540332 13-Aug-2020 16:24

MikeAqua:
Handle9:
You've danced around in the same way above it but do you believe that the government knew there was an outbreak and was hiding it?

I'm happy to put my neck on the line.

I think the govt had some cause for concern but didn't want to be the bearers of bad until they had to. Hence they did all the preparation messaging they could without "saying the excrement is headed toward the fan".

Can you please be more explicit in what you mean? What are causes for concern?

elpenguino

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#2540351 13-Aug-2020 16:53

On reflection I am very cross* with Collins and Brownlee for stooping so low to dog whistle such utter conspiracy BS on this issue. Their statements have the capacity to dangerously undermine the buy-in required for society to work together to get through something like this.

In a country that always scores near the top in international transparency and trust in government surveys, there's just no need for it. I have confidence that if there was important un-released information, a whistle blower would have let it slip.

Such a tactic shows the current National leadership are shut scared of getting thumped at the election and they don't have anything up their sleeve. They are totally bereft of ideas, talent and policy. Collins is still playing the game the only way she knows how, the Dirty Politics way. She doesn't act like there's been a subtle re-framing of the game and how the public expect it to be played.

*preferred words not used so as to abide by FUG

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quickymart

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#2540367 13-Aug-2020 17:43

Like I said, it looks (to me) like National are taking a page out of Trump's playbook, which I don't think is working very well for him, either.

Fred99

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#2540374 13-Aug-2020 17:47

MikeAqua:

Handle9:
You've danced around in the same way above it but do you believe that the government knew there was an outbreak and was hiding it?

I'm happy to put my neck on the line.

I think the govt had some cause for concern but didn't want to be the bearers of bad until they had to. Hence they did all the preparation messaging they could without "saying the excrement is headed toward the fan".

You're dreaming.

It takes time to test, false positives are a risk, it would be incredibly dumb to "pre-announce" a matter with such serious consequences unless they were 100% certain.

Some people buy in to conspiracy theory and "fake news", it's tragic but hardly surprising give the lack of moral fibre of the present leader and deputy - that's the demographic the present National Party leadership is trying to rile up - the loony-tunes brigade.

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