Who should I vote for?

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#1834905 1-Aug-2017 13:20

I want to see my Grand children live in a safer, cleaner, fairer New Zealand. If that means less personal wealth and more collective wealth then so be it. Things have not been working well for a very long time.

Wiggum

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#1834960 1-Aug-2017 13:57

Linuxluver:

No idea where to draw the line there.....especially as we are moving toward a time when more and more people won't have jobs at all as AI replaces people in more and more niches - from top to bottom. I'm happy to "fund lifestyles" if there is no job to go to. Anything else is a recipe for disaster.

We need to rethink this is Old Testament narrative on what "work" is. It's evaporating before our eyes.

The government creates money. There is never a shortage for war or bailing out banks. Maybe we should spend it on good stuff instead.

You forget that almost half the world is living on less than $US2.50 a day. And at least 80% is living on less than $10 a day. AI has the potential to become a first world problem. But in the bigger scale of things, its not a problem for the next few generations to even worry about.

AI's ominous potential is vastly overblown. Most people who are so fearful of AI don't have a clue about how computers/and or programs work. The stupid computer does not even know its playing Chess, and until it does, there really is not much to worry about. In the meantime, learn some robotics, and learn how to program. You may just secure yourself a very good job in the future.

MikeB4

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#1834997 1-Aug-2017 14:22

Wiggum:

Linuxluver:

No idea where to draw the line there.....especially as we are moving toward a time when more and more people won't have jobs at all as AI replaces people in more and more niches - from top to bottom. I'm happy to "fund lifestyles" if there is no job to go to. Anything else is a recipe for disaster.

We need to rethink this is Old Testament narrative on what "work" is. It's evaporating before our eyes.

The government creates money. There is never a shortage for war or bailing out banks. Maybe we should spend it on good stuff instead.

You forget that almost half the world is living on less than $US2.50 a day. And at least 80% is living on less than $10 a day. AI has the potential to become a first world problem. But in the bigger scale of things, its not a problem for the next few generations to even worry about.

AI's ominous potential is vastly overblown. Most people who are so fearful of AI don't have a clue about how computers/and or programs work. The stupid computer does not even know its playing Chess, and until it does, there really is not much to worry about. In the meantime, learn some robotics, and learn how to program. You may just secure yourself a very good job in the future.

How many jobs will be lost from autonomous Trucks, Trains, Boats, Taxis etc etc etc its not just Play Station and games. And of course everyone is capable of learning robotics and programming. I am fearful and my Wife is fearful about AI and we do no about "how computers/and or programs work"

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#1834998 1-Aug-2017 14:22

Wiggum:

AI's ominous potential is vastly overblown. Most people who are so fearful of AI don't have a clue about how computers/and or programs work. The stupid computer does not even know its playing Chess, and until it does, there really is not much to worry about. In the meantime, learn some robotics, and learn how to program. You may just secure yourself a very good job in the future.

Have you ever seen a modern car factory, or most other production plants, for that matter? Hundreds of robots, hardly a human in sight. Autonomous decision-making (and job replacement) does not require that machines discuss philosophy with each other.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Sam91

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#1835005 1-Aug-2017 14:35

Wiggum

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#1835008 1-Aug-2017 14:41

Rikkitic:

Wiggum:

AI's ominous potential is vastly overblown. Most people who are so fearful of AI don't have a clue about how computers/and or programs work. The stupid computer does not even know its playing Chess, and until it does, there really is not much to worry about. In the meantime, learn some robotics, and learn how to program. You may just secure yourself a very good job in the future.

Have you ever seen a modern car factory, or most other production plants, for that matter? Hundreds of robots, hardly a human in sight. Autonomous decision-making (and job replacement) does not require that machines discuss philosophy with each other.

It sounds like you getting confused with the industrial revolution. That started nearly 200 years ago and was also threatening to put people out of jobs. Somebody still needs to design the computers/machines/write the instructions. All those robots are doing, is simply following a list of instructions.

The biggest problem for AI is consciousness. Until that gets solved, the robots are not coming to take our jobs. Some jobs will vanish, as what happened in the industrial revolution, but others will get created.

MikeB4

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#1835018 1-Aug-2017 14:58

Wiggum:

Rikkitic:

Wiggum:

AI's ominous potential is vastly overblown. Most people who are so fearful of AI don't have a clue about how computers/and or programs work. The stupid computer does not even know its playing Chess, and until it does, there really is not much to worry about. In the meantime, learn some robotics, and learn how to program. You may just secure yourself a very good job in the future.

Have you ever seen a modern car factory, or most other production plants, for that matter? Hundreds of robots, hardly a human in sight. Autonomous decision-making (and job replacement) does not require that machines discuss philosophy with each other.

It sounds like you getting confused with the industrial revolution. That started nearly 200 years ago and was also threatening to put people out of jobs. Somebody still needs to design the computers/machines/write the instructions. All those robots are doing, is simply following a list of instructions.

The biggest problem for AI is consciousness. Until that gets solved, the robots are not coming to take our jobs. Some jobs will vanish, as what happened in the industrial revolution, but others will get created.

I will put this as politely as I can, you are so wrong. You need to learn about what is happening. Do you really believe the jobs that will be lost will be gathered up by the IT companies who by the way are massively reducing the staff levels. These are NOT numbers these are people like you that you flippantly refer to their job loss. And of course in line with other posts you have made it will be their choice to go on Welfare and live a great life style on that benefit.

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Rikkitic

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#1835022 1-Aug-2017 15:01

Wiggum:

It sounds like you getting confused with the industrial revolution. That started nearly 200 years ago and was also threatening to put people out of jobs. Somebody still needs to design the computers/machines/write the instructions. All those robots are doing, is simply following a list of instructions.

The biggest problem for AI is consciousness. Until that gets solved, the robots are not coming to take our jobs. Some jobs will vanish, as what happened in the industrial revolution, but others will get created.

The first four responses to a simple Google search. I think you are the one living in the past:

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/12/federal-report-ai-could-threaten-up-to-47-percent-of-jobs-in-two-decades/

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/11/robots-jobs-employees-artificial-intelligence

https://qz.com/940977/no-one-is-prepared-to-stop-the-robot-onslaught-so-what-will-we-do-when-it-arrives/

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/10/40-of-jobs-taken-by-robots-by-2030-but-ai-companies-say-theyre-here-to-help-6628469/

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Wiggum

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#1835026 1-Aug-2017 15:04

MikeB4:

I will put this as politely as I can, you are so wrong. You need to learn about what is happening. Do you really believe the jobs that will be lost will be gathered up by the IT companies who by the way are massively reducing the staff levels. These are NOT numbers these are people like you that you flippantly refer to their job loss.

No offense but I bet the people opposed to the industrial revolution had a very similar opinion.

I guess this one is now seriously off topic.

Its gone from "who should I vote for" -> "the robots are coming"

Fred99

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#1835066 1-Aug-2017 15:47

Wiggum:

MikeB4:

I will put this as politely as I can, you are so wrong. You need to learn about what is happening. Do you really believe the jobs that will be lost will be gathered up by the IT companies who by the way are massively reducing the staff levels. These are NOT numbers these are people like you that you flippantly refer to their job loss.

No offense but I bet the people opposed to the industrial revolution had a very similar opinion.

I guess this one is now seriously off topic.

Its gone from "who should I vote for" -> "the robots are coming"

One thing that did happen as a result of the industrial revolution was that labour united and formed unions, driving up wages, eliminating child-labour. That actually boosted production as it created a pool of new customers who could afford to buy the products being produced in factories and the leisure time to enjoy them.

It'd be wonderful if the profits from the coming AI revolution could be used to benefit all of mankind, but we'd need to kill Gordon Gecko first, as if the potential result of AI revolution was plenty of everything, then a society continuing to be mainly based on a concept that greed is good would be a very dumb idea.

MikeB4

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#1835073 1-Aug-2017 16:02

Fred99:

Wiggum:

MikeB4:

I will put this as politely as I can, you are so wrong. You need to learn about what is happening. Do you really believe the jobs that will be lost will be gathered up by the IT companies who by the way are massively reducing the staff levels. These are NOT numbers these are people like you that you flippantly refer to their job loss.

No offense but I bet the people opposed to the industrial revolution had a very similar opinion.

I guess this one is now seriously off topic.

Its gone from "who should I vote for" -> "the robots are coming"

One thing that did happen as a result of the industrial revolution was that labour united and formed unions, driving up wages, eliminating child-labour. That actually boosted production as it created a pool of new customers who could afford to buy the products being produced in factories and the leisure time to enjoy them.

It'd be wonderful if the profits from the coming AI revolution could be used to benefit all of mankind, but we'd need to kill Gordon Gecko first, as if the potential result of AI revolution was plenty of everything, then a society continuing to be mainly based on a concept that greed is good would be a very dumb idea.

Those pressures were causes to some degree in wars including two World wars. One big difference between the Industrial change and the AI change was new lands to conquer and occupy and new industries. Many of those new industries resulting from colonial expansion. That is not going to happen with the AI change. There will be no new colonies to conquer and any off planet migration is many decades away if viable at all.

MikeB4

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#1835076 1-Aug-2017 16:03

Wiggum:

MikeB4:

I will put this as politely as I can, you are so wrong. You need to learn about what is happening. Do you really believe the jobs that will be lost will be gathered up by the IT companies who by the way are massively reducing the staff levels. These are NOT numbers these are people like you that you flippantly refer to their job loss.

No offense but I bet the people opposed to the industrial revolution had a very similar opinion.

I guess this one is now seriously off topic.

Its gone from "who should I vote for" -> "the robots are coming"

Not off topic, politics and every election is about the future.

tdgeek

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#1835193 1-Aug-2017 19:47

Pumpedd:

I feel we are ready for a change, but I cannot discover a decent alternative to National. I believe the health system is broken as is the welfare system.

Labour should have used this time in opposition to reinvent itself to become relevant again, but its a sad broke party hanging onto its Union roots.

There is something about Arden I dont like and dont trust. I dont like English much either as he comes across as a bit of a jerk.

Winstons party has no depth other than him and I detest the Greens. I like the Act guy, but the party is non existent.

What a dilema!!!

Maybe I shouldnt vote this year.

Health is broken as is housing as is green, as is infrastructure. I agree that the overall outlook isn't great. The incumbent is accepted, safe, but non functional. Labour is now new, and unproven. Greens are radical but green, and will not govern, so safe there. Winston is radical, but a voice, also went given. ACT is act. United Future will go where the grass is greener. He has already said that. Maori will only want Maori things.

Id like a National-Labour-Green-NZF coalition. Sound silly? maybe, but get all the good parts, and blend. Heat till cooked. Coalitions dilute the main party and blend the rest, thats not that bad a thing. Get some bi partisan in action

tdgeek

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#1835200 1-Aug-2017 19:51

caminham:

Geektastic:

MikeB4:

Career wise I think it is too early for Jacinda Arden but absolutely believe she is a PM in waiting. A better choice if Labour is going to risk a change this close to an election would be Grant Robertson and leave Jacinda Arden in the deputy role.

'In waiting' is the very best place for Labour PM's to be...!

@Geektastic, could you add anything to your reasons for being a die hard National voter (I think that's what this thread was trying to achieve)? You've said again and again that you'll vote National because you always do - which is a terrible reason, the world changes and governments need to too.

I'd love to hear which policies or values of their's lead you to this discussion.

Personally, I think a change of leadership in Labour will either make or break them. If someone can step up and give that party direction they've got a real chance in this election. So many people seem to be voting National because they don't see a half decent alternative and the main reason Labour isn't one is because of their leadership.

I think this election could get interesting today.

What breaks this is loyalty. Many vote National as Im well off. Many vote Labour as they are poor workers. Many vote Green as thats cool, and so on. It seems that only a few vote properly. On real issues, on real people, and on real policies. GK is a prime example. he actually doesnt vote for anything.

Say you always vote for party K . The other party, Q is the baddy, but a GREAT leader. Your party, K is your party but a crap leader, who do you vote for?

DaveB

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#1835225 1-Aug-2017 20:39

tdgeek:

Health is broken .........

Overall, Public Health is certainly in a better space than what it was 20 years ago. But at what cost? It's not free, nor will ever be free.

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