Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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Networkn
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#2991512 3-Nov-2022 14:20

JPNZ:

Just add it to the taxpayer tab thanks Trev... It can go along with the $330,000 the taxpayer had to fork out when Mallard falsely accused someone of Rape

How this didn't cost him his position/job is beyond me.

sen8or

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#2991546 3-Nov-2022 15:59

networkn:

sen8or:

What, you mean our current Govt underestimated the costs, wow, mark this day down in the history books......

I have less of a problem in a situation where a cost was not calculated for but was totally necessary and had costings been done correctly, then it would have been required regardless. One time or perhaps in a project this size, a couple of so times.

Where I'd be unhappy, is if it's due to poor management or planning that the tax payer has bourne significant additional costs. On a project this size, it's fairly inevitable, but again, it shouldn't be the normal.

What if, the costings had been done correctly and they asserted that the project was not viable, but by under-costing, they were already waist deep in it, so might as well keep going. Operational creep, oldest way in the book to try and slip something past.....

networkn

Networkn
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#2991635 3-Nov-2022 18:20

sen8or:

What if, the costings had been done correctly and they asserted that the project was not viable, but by under-costing, they were already waist deep in it, so might as well keep going. Operational creep, oldest way in the book to try and slip something past.....

I'm not a fan of how this Government operates, but for my sanity I choose to not go down that way of thinking unless there is some pretty clear-cut evidence to support it.

If it came out they did that, I would expect a FULL cleanout of the Labour leadership and a criminal investigation.

Occams Razer I guess.

sir1963

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#2991658 3-Nov-2022 19:43

sen8or:

What if, the costings had been done correctly and they asserted that the project was not viable, but by under-costing, they were already waist deep in it, so might as well keep going. Operational creep, oldest way in the book to try and slip something past.....

I don't do conspiracies.

sen8or

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#2991711 4-Nov-2022 08:06

I'm not normally a tinfoil hat kinda person either, I just have a huge level of mistrust in the current Govt, especially Mahuta who I believe is as crooked as they get and seriously wouldn't put anything past them trying to manipulate things.

Now Mahuta, like Peters, is very adept at keeping clean and there would be almost no way to actually link anything to them, but, when something smells fishy (family contracts), it just doesn't pass the sniff test

gzt

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#2992434 6-Nov-2022 13:00

Before the current round of anti-Mahuta stuff I encountered a previous round of similar indignation. It was all about a government minister wearing a moko kauae. Is this suitable to represent New Zealand and should it be allowed blah blah blah. It seemed to be recent clueless arrivals in NZ and some local encouragers who should know better. It's hard to imagine any New Zealander under 30 having an opinion like that. I feel some of this has blended with the latest. I can't say I've seen much detail.

GV27

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#2992438 6-Nov-2022 14:29

gzt: Before the current round of anti-Mahuta stuff I encountered a previous round of similar indignation. It was all about a government minister wearing a moko kauae. Is this suitable to represent New Zealand and should it be allowed blah blah blah. It seemed to be recent clueless arrivals in NZ and some local encouragers who should know better. It's hard to imagine any New Zealander under 30 having an opinion like that. I feel some of this has blended with the latest. I can't say I've seen much detail.

I suspect some these comments were boosted by people looking for sympathetic outrage on said Minister's behalf.

Ardern all but ruling out tax cuts, boosting the families packages. Great for people who qualify for them, of cold comfort to families with two working adults with an income level trying to service a mortgage where the rates have likely more than doubled, given what they'd likely need to actually get a mortgage in the first place. They get to pay for other people though, so that's nice, as well as all the living costs that justify the changes to the system announced today.

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GV27

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#2992607 6-Nov-2022 17:46

Again, the changes around childcare eligibility for funding assistance is just a change that should have been made years ago dressed up as a political sop in the lead-up to an election from a struggling 2nd term government that otherwise wouldn't be doing.

Here's some other stuff that's been left on seen for years, a decade or possibly even more.

Personal Tax Rates
Student Loan repayment schemes
Meaningful WFFTC abatement changes
20 hours free (this should be 40 hours free) - this one hasn't changed since the policy was announced. In 2007. And it still only kicks in once a kid is three, so presumably you're still expected to pay tens of thousands a year in daycare fees until then.

Maybe if the Labour Party continues to poll in the doldrums then some of the other stuff like this might actually get updated.

This is such a poor and crappy way to run a country - only improve it when there's something in it for you, otherwise just ignore everything.

JA saying that making the childcare subsidy universal would 'cost billions' - completely undermined by her Govt collecting billions more each year through non-indexing of tax brackets and the extra GST driven by inflation. That's not a good enough excuse.

People need massive household incomes just to get a mortgage, and that means dual income households that still end up living paycheque to paycheque. Low thresholds that haven't moved or remain insanely low are a sign of an out-of-touch government and civil service.

sir1963

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#2992608 6-Nov-2022 17:55

And when Tertiary education staff want a pay rise to meet inflation, Labour says "Not our problem"

So much for high education, high paying jobs.

When GPs want an increase in capitation to meet inflation, Labour says "Not our problem"

When the average age of GPs is over 50 and there is a looming MASSIVE problem, Labour says "Not our problem"

When Hospitals lose accreditation for their radiology departments, Labour says "Not our problem"

Unless its a Populist topic, Landlord, food, petrol, childcare, etc etc etc then labour does NOT care, because they are now out there buying votes, just like National did.

GV27

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#2992628 6-Nov-2022 20:23

Exactly. A lot of these 'decisive actions' are really just extremely deferred updates of existing schemes or things a government should be updating regularly as a matter of course.

To give you some idea, the Government has taken a $9B loss on RBNZ's Covid bond buying. Today's policy is just under $190m. Don't let anyone seriously tell you that things like universal childcare are 'too expensive' - it just means they'd have to be up front about increasing income taxes or GST instead of just not talking about it and letting bracket creep do the job for them.

JPNZ

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#2992636 6-Nov-2022 20:51

You know you’re on a sinking ship when your party conference speech is all points about the opposition. I suppose when you’ve achieved two fifths of nothing you have to talk about something else.

“All up, Robertson referred to National almost 20 times during his speech to the Labour Party faithful. Speaking to reporters afterwards, he defended his focus.”

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JPNZ

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#2992637 6-Nov-2022 20:53

As for todays “major cost of living announcement” give me a break….

Out of ideas already Grant?

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tdgeek

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#2992708 7-Nov-2022 06:50

GV27:

This is such a poor and crappy way to run a country - only improve it when there's something in it for you, otherwise just ignore everything.

Assume you are referring to Labour. Also applies to all NZ governments no matter what the colour. But it applies mainly to the citizens, by a wide margin.

GV27

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#2992712 7-Nov-2022 07:24

tdgeek:

Assume you are referring to Labour. Also applies to all NZ governments no matter what the colour. But it applies mainly to the citizens, by a wide margin.

Yes exactly. By not demanding this as a matter of course, we end up with things that should be updated annually on happening either come election time, or not at all if there's a side-benefit (like a return to surplus or chance to boast about your economic management chops).

After all, the underlying inflation is constant, it's not on a three year cycle either. But we let this happen and act like this stuff is a policy choice when in reality it's just basic administration, by not expecting better.

tdgeek

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#2992718 7-Nov-2022 07:59

GV27:

Yes exactly. By not demanding this as a matter of course, we end up with things that should be updated annually on happening either come election time, or not at all if there's a side-benefit (like a return to surplus or chance to boast about your economic management chops).

After all, the underlying inflation is constant, it's not on a three year cycle either. But we let this happen and act like this stuff is a policy choice when in reality it's just basic administration, by not expecting better.

Yep. But as I noted, the citizens are worse than any Govt. Fickle. It affects me, so no vote. I get a benefit, I will vote for you. All the other stuff, other issues, long term benefits or costs, I don't care, its all about me. But I will surely complain when the other stuff doesn't improve, even though the bribe I voted for will no doubt push back the other stuff. Having said that, even if NZ was in a good place economically, we can never get everything on track anyway, so more complaints and vote whoever out, rinse and repeat.

Re your comments on tax thresholds, 100% agree, no reason why they are not indexed annually, tax tables are just software updates. But, they affect NZ revenue. As does foregoing nurses and teachers pay increases, until that becomes yet another problem. If you forego these pay increases, tax thresholds, you garner more revenue/less costs. Yet we still cannot move forward, NZ is just too small. End of the day, nothing will change here, we are too small. If we gave the pay increases, tax thresholds this week, that might cost x billion per annum. Well, thats ok, not too bad, but the reality is, every annual budget is affected, forever.

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