Is Dolby Atmos the Audio Equivalent of 3D TV?

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325 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1746030 22-Mar-2017 19:59

Maxcat:
sen8or:

I understand your struggles Maxcat.

I have had my Denon for about 12 years now (3805), its a good amp with 7.1, plenty of power and nice sound. It is pre-HDMI though, so no "HD" sound from Blu-ray, no Atmos etc. Part of me really wants to upgrade to a new amp with at least HD sound formats and maybe Atmos, but, the new sound formats are only on Blu-ray. Don't know about your movie watching habits, but the volume of movies I watch on disc is now very low, the bulk is via Netflix, Amazon video or similar, where "old" Dolby Digital is broadcast.

If physical disc is indeed on the way out (I have purchased about 10 discs in the last 12-18 months), what is the point of the new sound codecs at all?

I didn't think of that! Huge point to consider!

I can not remember the last disc I purchased (or rented).

I have little interest in owning film these days. I have Laserdiscs I bought I haven't watched in decades while most of today, my discs are music based concerts, not film.

Thanks - your point is really a major Atmos stumbling block I hadn't considered.

Upmixing is great for non Atmos content. I love the real surrounded by sound feeling after putting in ceiling speakers. It adds a real depth to the sound.
But a genuine Atmos recorded film is a real step up in sound quality.

I am lucky to have a dedicated room, fully blacked out, 7 surround speakers plus 4 subs and a 140 inch acoustic screen with HD projector. Adding 4 ceiling speakers really enhanced the "in a theatre" impact to the experience. More than I thought it would.

kendog

325 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1746037 22-Mar-2017 20:08

To answer the comparisons to 3D question, I would say I really hope it not the same and that Atmos survives.

My wish is for online content to have Atmos audio, or some form of object orientated audio. I think physical formats are on their last legs and I am pissed off Atmos is mostly limited to UHD disks. I don't want to buy another disk player and risk my older (but not ancient) projector not coping with UHD.
But each time I hear an Atmos move (last one was World of Warcraft) I am in awe of how good it sounds. It really is impressive!
It's not just the overhead sounds, the sound is better.

mentalinc

3241 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1746041 22-Mar-2017 20:12

Maxcat:

One of the things that really surprised/shocked/bemused me is the ceiling channels are not discrete channels with Atmos.

That's because Atmos is object audio not channel driven...

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Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#1746056 22-Mar-2017 20:40

To begin with, ATMOS will be coming to you via Dolby Plus in the very near future - that's what Netflix use, and it's no coincidence that it'll be available in that format.

On 3D vs Atmos / DTS:X.

No comparison, everyone knew 3D was being re-introduced for the 37'th time to help TV sales, even the TV companies said it.

It was rubbish to begin with and never got much better. The upside, it did see a minor amount of picture processing power increase in sets.

Atmos is the biggest step forward to me since 5.1... and a good 5.1.2 system certainly surpasses 7.1!

It sucks you in, and even though you know there are speakers in the ceiling, you still react and look up when they come to the fore.

I've heard up-ward firing, in-ceiling, 5.1.2, 5.1.4, 7.1.2, 7.1.4 in all the configurations - from all in-ceiling speakers right through to 100k setups... and it is truly cool. Regarding up-firing speakers, you do need a flat smooth ceiling and don't be fooled by the cheapie little add-ons from the likes of Onkyo, they're simply not up to the task. The good Atmos modules cost a little more for a reason...

The thing is, if you're not particularly taken by new cinematic releases, then you've probably answered your own question.

Watching DVD re-runs doesn't require Atmos, it was never designed around it, so it won't improve it. But if the director of a new film believes in it (and many, many do) as a way of better expressing their artistic vision - then it's a good thing. After all, the tech truly does work well.

Maxcat

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1746324 23-Mar-2017 11:30

One of the things that worries me about Atmos is more sonic clutter.

Most 5.1 systems are painfully compromised due to the lounge environment and even in most dedicated rooms where seats are located tight to the back wall. Take a look at some of the six figure installs at AVS.

Secondly, many still use dipole surrounds for discrete soundtracks (which I will never understand) and then add 4 more speakers to the mix in the roof.

Now, in my HT world what that means is a lot of of smearing of detail all firing at a compromised sweet spot - all at once.

Add in the nonsense of reflecting Atmos off the ceiling and I shake my head thinking..get the basic 5.1 system correct THEN and only then, start thinking about adding in more speakers above your seating position.

I can't wait for someone to start the debate about the dispersion type needed for in-ceiling Atmos installs..

So as you can see..my view is very much based on getting the chassis correct and then adding the 'extras'.

kendog

325 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1746575 23-Mar-2017 19:03

It's not a good dedicated room if the seating is against the back wall, you need space behind you for better sound.

I forgot to mention I like a lot of music upmixed as well, especially dub step type music.

Maxcat

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1746585 23-Mar-2017 19:28

kendog: It's not a good dedicated room if the seating is against the back wall, you need space behind you for better sound.

I forgot to mention I like a lot of music upmixed as well, especially dub step type music.

Agreed. That's why I shake my head in disbelief at some of the AVS systems in dedicated planned rooms.

The rear channels need to breath and when you are so close to them the surround soundfield is totally compromised.

Add in ceiling speakers and it's like you've added a V8 to your mini and you haven't upgraded the suspension (or the brakes..)

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Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#1746708 23-Mar-2017 22:34

Maxcat - have you heard an Atmos system at this point?

If so, what was the setup / content?

Maxcat

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1746767 24-Mar-2017 07:03

No I haven't.

I've long ago lost touch with people who would have pushed the envelope on this.

But critically experience says not to have a first taste of a new format with a dumb film as I did with Top Gun and LaserDisc.

More critically than that, I have no interest in watching a film for its soundtrack.

I'd like to experience something that is not a blockbuster and not on a half-baked in-store install bouncing sound off the ceiling..(!)..) in a discrete digital age, how did we get back to this?)

So I'm waiting until there is an install that can demonstrate something other than American Sniper for me to enjoy - or something I have already seen.

Here is quick query though, given that Atmos requires repositioning of the rear surround speakers does this then mean they are now in the wrong location for stock 5.1 soundtracks based on Dolby's original recommendation for high speaker placement?

mentalinc

3241 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1746785 24-Mar-2017 07:47

What sort of experience are you wanting Atmos to give you?

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Maxcat

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1746803 24-Mar-2017 07:51

Accurate to the source.

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#1747193 24-Mar-2017 17:04

Maxcat:

Here is quick query though, given that Atmos requires repositioning of the rear surround speakers does this then mean they are now in the wrong location for stock 5.1 soundtracks based on Dolby's original recommendation for high speaker placement?

From Dolby's site...

If this is not a channel-based system, why are there predefined speaker positions?

Because Dolby Atmos is new to home theater, we defined a few “reference” speaker configurations to ensure that early customers could have a great experience while having the option to keep most of the equipment they already have.

Among those reference setups are the 5.1.2 configuration, which involves adding two ceiling or Dolby Atmos enabled speakers to a traditional 5.1 system, and the 7.1.4 configuration, which starts with a traditional 7.1 system and adds four ceiling or Dolby Atmos enabled speakers.

But we believe this is just the beginning. Because the Dolby Atmos object-based audio system is so adaptable, you can use many other speaker configurations. No matter what system you build, the Dolby Atmos format and system will adapt itself to output the best audio experience possible.

https://blog.dolby.com/2014/06/dolby-atmos-home-theaters-questions-answered/

kendog

325 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1747277 24-Mar-2017 19:50

Maxcat:
Here is quick query though, given that Atmos requires repositioning of the rear surround speakers does this then mean they are now in the wrong location for stock 5.1 soundtracks based on Dolby's original recommendation for high speaker placement?

I don't mind ear level surrounds, but I have space in the room so they are not right next to your head when sitting.
I also run the upmixer all the time. It plays unaltered 5.1 or 7.1 base level sound and simulates the overhead sounds into the ceiling speakers. It makes the surrounds sound higher than they actually are. For the most part it works really well, with the very occasional strange sound from above.

ilovemusic

1439 posts

Uber Geek

#1747612 25-Mar-2017 16:14

lots of folks are still using dipole rears in this discrete age..

hahaha

i've been looking at atmos in the home too and like max, i find the current state-of-the-art underwhelming...

Dunnersfella

4086 posts

Uber Geek

#1747730 25-Mar-2017 22:11

People who are using dipoles will be doing so because they prefer the sound compared to bipoles or monopoles in their system.

I've been lucky enough to try multiple arrangements and as will all the speakers, placement needs to be carefully considered for all speaker types.

Can I ask the OP, what system are you coming from?

What level of kit are you looking to buy? Preferences etc?

That will at least allow people to give you the right advice based on their experiences... or even point you towards somewhere that you can hear a well setup system.

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