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Topic # 30670 17-Feb-2009 10:03
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Hi Guys

Before you start, I do know that technicially Blue Ray can hold at least 10x the amount of data than DVD. I have only just recently view an upscaled DVD & was quite blown away with the detail over non-scaled DVD.
 
I suppose this is a question for those who have a Blue Ray Player or have seen a Blue Ray being played beside an Upscaled DVD, is there a huge differences visually?


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  Reply # 196238 17-Feb-2009 11:07
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I have not seen a upscaled DVD and bluray together...but I have heard that a lot people can't tell the difference when a good quality DVD player and HDMI cable is used. I am off to the Bristol AV show were they are doing a blind test between upscaled and bluray to see if people can tell the difference.
I will tell you next week what I find.




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  Reply # 196244 17-Feb-2009 11:41
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A bit more to consider than might initially seem here.

What size TV?
How far is the viewing distance?
What resolution TV? 
- DVD is 576i resolution, so not too far from 720p HD ready, but a long way from 1080i Native resoulution.

More specifically though, a lot depends on what is doing the upscaling, and how good the DVD source is as well.  Some upscale better than others, using more clever processes than just what's in the TV alone.

In some ways it's a no brainer, the bluray is going to be better, but by how much is going to be subjective.  On a small 32" TV etc it's not that different in some cases, but on a 100" min projector, or a 42 - 50" lcd/plasma then it's likely to be easily better I suspect.

For me bluray opens up the new HD audio formats as well, so it's better all around.  The PS3 upscales the DVD's extremely well, so you get the best of both worlds.

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  Reply # 196245 17-Feb-2009 11:42
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If they can't tell the difference, then they need to use better TVs. You can't create detail that isn't there in the first place. Upscaling a DVD with decent processing makes the image better, but there's still a lot of compression artifacts in most DVDs that you can filter to an extent, but you can't restore the original data so any fine detail will always be lost.

If you're not too picky then a good upscaling HDMI DVD player and a good 720P TV will produce a perfectly acceptable image. My DVD player (Sony NS-92V) upscales to 1080i and it does look noticably better than the original, but A-Bing 5th Element (Criterion edition) between that and the Blu-Ray is no comparison.

The PS3 also upscales DVDs and arguably does a better job than the DVD player, but it's still obvious which is which to even a fairly casual observer.

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  Reply # 196289 17-Feb-2009 14:15
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I think the smalle the screen size the less difference you will notice between upscaled DVD and Blu-Ray.  I would say screens over 40" you will see a difference.  I have a 720p projector throwing a 50" image and I see a dramatic improvement between upscaled DVD and Blu-Ray.  I would imagine with a 1080p projector it will be even more dramatic.

Remember though that viewing distance also plays a factor.  If you sit too far away from the screen then you won't see that much difference.

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Geek


  Reply # 196299 17-Feb-2009 15:19
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There is a huge difference.
The level of detail in Bluray is breathtaking, also the colors are much more vivid. Try it and see, you will be blown away.
The effect will be more and more noticeable as the screen size increases, but even a 40" will be immediately obvious what you watching.

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  Reply # 196304 17-Feb-2009 15:33
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Where in NZ are you?

If you are in Welly, go to JB Hifi. They have had Wall-e and Speed Racer playing recently on blu-ray. Ive got an upscaling DVD player and 720p LCD TV. Seeing Wall-e and Speed racer on blu-ray showed me how crap my set up really is.

Seriously, they had Wall-e playing a huge LCD (might have been 50 inch) and I couldnt spot any artefacts in the picture - it was unbelievable.

And this come from an HD nay-sayer so thats got to stand for something!

If you can justify the $400 for a blu-ray go and get one!

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  Reply # 196307 17-Feb-2009 15:36
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Night and day difference,

But some people just take the sharpness up to full on the display to think they are looking at HD because its so sharp, so the ignorance wouldnt suprise me.




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  Reply # 196317 17-Feb-2009 15:46
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BTW it probably also depends on the reference material. The Sony shop in Wellington has James Bond playing and I couldnt see much difference compared to my upsacled DVD version (of Casino Royale).

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  Reply # 196347 17-Feb-2009 17:54
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the difference is MASSIVE, chalk and cheese, if a full hdtv 50" and above is used. if a tv containing 1280x756 pixels of 40-50" is used the difference is large sitting at 1-2m, negligible-to-significant if sitting 3m or more (depending on the upscale quality and tv configuration/ability). can't say for smaller tvs, probably significant if viewing at 1m or less.


upscaled dvd looks hopeless on a full hdtv 50" or larger ... made me wanna vomit when i replaced my 50" 1280x756 tv with a 50" full hdtv. (when using the older heady-ready tv, sitting at 2-3m definitely had large difference, as you could see the ugly pixellation of ps3-upscaled dvd but sitting at 5m could not tell the difference at all - there is just so much detail able to be shown on 1920x1080 screen it's not funny. you need a good recording though, a '1080p' clip that is 'remastered' worse/better than 1080p budget production is worse than 1080p recorded and edited with a US$100million production team)





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  Reply # 196380 17-Feb-2009 20:58
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Thanks for all the responses,really helpful

I have recently purchased an 40" Full HD LCD & in the process of thinking what my next purchase should be to maximise the Tv's full potential, however budget pending. This is where my question regarding  whether there is a huge difference Blue Ray Player & Upscaling DVD Player has come from.

Do live in Wellington & have seen Wall-E & Speed Racer being played in the store,however I have been told to be cautious about making judgement when viewing Animated films (Speed Racer - to some degree) at retail stores, as they can mask the picture quality.

Based on viewing a dvd my Tv, does anything think I would notice a difference between dvd upscaled to 1080i & 1080p, or would it be very marginal

Wmoore- would certainly be interested in what you discover from those blind test

Joker97- Thanks good to know about the viewing distances

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  Reply # 196387 17-Feb-2009 21:32
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- does anything think I would notice a difference between dvd upscaled to 1080i & 1080p, or would it be very marginal

i'd say it will depend on personal preference and the tv settings and the upscaler's algorithm.

so i suggest you get apocalypto by mel gibson and try upscaling to 720p vs 1080i vs 1080p. then what you think's best will be best. (that show has the best dvd sample as it's filmed in quite close up-ness and so the artifacts are minimal)




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  Reply # 196394 17-Feb-2009 21:39
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Hi Yipan, if you want to try out a blu-ray player before buying, then go to your local video rental store and hire out a PS3.  Hire out a blu-ray movie which you already have on DVD so you can compare.  The PS3 will upscale a DVD but it isn't as good  as some of the more esxpensive upscaling DVD players but will give you an idea.  Then compare the DVD against the blu-ray.  Play the DVD first and then the Blu-Ray.  I think you will be blown away.

Some good discs for picture quality are The Fifth Element, any of the Pirates Movies, I, Robot is totally awsome.  Other people might be able to give some others as well.

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  Reply # 196399 17-Feb-2009 22:07
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Rhygar: Hi Yipan, if you want to try out a blu-ray player before buying, then go to your local video rental store and hire out a PS3.  Hire out a blu-ray movie which you already have on DVD so you can compare.  The PS3 will upscale a DVD but it isn't as good  as some of the more esxpensive upscaling DVD players but will give you an idea.  Then compare the DVD against the blu-ray.  Play the DVD first and then the Blu-Ray.  I think you will be blown away.

Some good discs for picture quality are The Fifth Element, any of the Pirates Movies, I, Robot is totally awsome.  Other people might be able to give some others as well.


Just be sure to use HDMI... our local has PS3 to rent with composite cables only Yell







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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 196496 18-Feb-2009 13:33
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I have a 50" 120Hz 1080p Samsung LCD and run blu-ray through my PS3 connected with HDMI. I've actively compared an upscaled DVD to the blu-ray version and can say without a doubt that while the upscale is pretty good, it's just not as good as the blu-ray. It certainly looks a lot cleaner than running on a normal dvd player, but the artifacts and occassional imbalances in tone make it pretty clear that it's being upconverted. The blu-ray is just so crisp and precise that you really can see a noticable difference.

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  Reply # 196506 18-Feb-2009 14:00
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joker97: - does anything think I would notice a difference between dvd upscaled to 1080i & 1080p, or would it be very marginal

i'd say it will depend on personal preference and the tv settings and the upscaler's algorithm.

so i suggest you get apocalypto by mel gibson and try upscaling to 720p vs 1080i vs 1080p. then what you think's best will be best. (that show has the best dvd sample as it's filmed in quite close up-ness and so the artifacts are minimal)


yeah this is a good test, I foudn with my TV and upscaling DVD that the best result was actually to set the DVD player to 576p and let the TV "upscale". WHen I set to 720p (or better) on the DVD player I get lots of antialiassed pixel which I find distracting (especially in high contrast scenes).

My players on screen logo is a good example as the logo is red on a black background, at 720p or 1080i/p I get a green border whish ia annoying.

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