Good value HDD recorder for freeview satellite

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timmmay

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#74560 2-Jan-2011 11:07

My Mum's been using a VCR to record TV shows, but she can't buy tapes any more, so I suggested she get a hard disk recorder. She has freeview satellite using an old standard def decoder that doesn't have hdmi. It has component video (ie the three plugs) that doesn't seem to work well, and also that yellow plug for video - i'm not sure what it's called. She's in Wanganui, where they can't get freeview UHF yet.

Her TV is a brand new Samsung 40" LCD, and she has the freeview box and an old DVD player. Right now the rarely used DVD player is connected via the yellow video plug, and freeview is tuned in via the old aerial socket. She has no internet connection and no interest in getting one.

Ideally she needs a hard disk recorder that can take the yellow video plug and two audio plugs, record whatever comes in, and output via hdmi. If the hdd recorder can tune the freeview itself that's a bonus. Price is important, she'd take an ok cheap product over a really good expensive product.

I know nothing about the different brands of hdd recorders, so suggestions would be appreciated, :)

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#423382 2-Jan-2011 13:07

You have a couple of options available.

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Option 1:
Buy one of these

Ultraplus 780 micro PVR Digital Satellite Receiver - $285.95
http://www.freeviewshop.co.nz/ultraplus-micro-digital-satellite-receiver-p-442.html

and add on an external HDD for your standard definition Freeview Satellite recording pleasure.

If you go with the 1TB HDD that is offered as an extra on the freeviewshop.co.nz website then that would come to about $440.
You could go for something smaller (i.e. WD Elements SE 2.5" 500GB Portable Hard Drive - http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.shop/en/product/XH1219 ) and take it down to $390.

You could then sell the current satellite box and recoup the costs. Or keep it as a "second channel" viewer, as I don't think the ultraplus box does "record one channel, watch another".

Option 2:
Buy one of these

Sony 160GB Hard Drive DVD Recorder - $399.20
http://www.noelleeming.co.nz/tvs-dvds/dvd-video/dvd-recorders/sony-rdrhx780b-160gb-hdd-recorder/prod35324.html

And just hook the current satellite receiver into it.

The only annoyance with this is that you have to make sure the Sony HDD recorder is set on the right AV input channel, and that the satellite box is also set on the right channel (and also that the satellite box hasn't been set to mute - had that happen before ;) ).
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Another benefit of Option 1 is that you will be using the 7-day EPG to schedule your recordings, so you won't have to manually enter in start/stop times.

Anyway, that's all I can think of at the moment. Unfortunately you are limited because you don't have Freeview|HD in your area.

Hope that helps. :)

timmmay

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#423388 2-Jan-2011 13:50

They'll get FreeView HD UHF in Wanganui sooner or later, so I guess it makes sense to get something future proof. #1 doesn't have HDMI or HD which is a bit of a downside. #3 looks decent though, and not tooo expensive for her.

Can #2 take the yellow video in, record it, and output it in HDMI?

michaelt

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#423390 2-Jan-2011 13:54

The cheapest option is probably the Digistar 811U (Massive forum topic at http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=83&topicid=31460 ).

There's plenty of them on trademe at $100 buy now. They can record Freeview satellite onto a USB drive.

I have a slightly older model (810U). It works well, but is somewhat limited (not Freeview certified, limited EPG functionality, clumsy interface, etc). I think the 811U has some of the same limitations, but I've never used one myself. I'd probably sell that for about $70 if you're interested, but you might be better off buying a new one.

These'll work with any FAT32 formatted USB drive, so you'd also need to spend some money on a flash drive or USB hard drive.

Just so you know, the 'yellow video plug' you referred to is commonly known as 'composite' video. If you go for two separate devices (Freeview receiver and recorder) I wouldn't be too concerned about HDMI output as it'll be mostly pointless after the quality loss over the composite connection between the receiver and recorder.

Also, the old aerial socket is the lowest quality connection available on modern equipment. I'd strongly recommend using at least composite video instead (preferably S-Video, Component or HDMI).

dontpanic42

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#423391 2-Jan-2011 14:09

#3? I assume that is a typo ;)

Umm... I believe the Sony HDD recorder will take the yellow (Composite, BTW) video input and output it through HDMI to the TV. There would be no reason why it wouldn't, however, I can't be 100% sure.

@michaelt
Good suggestion on the Digistar. That one totally slipped my mind.
I would assume the EPG would be a full 7-days, as it is taking it from the EIT info?

In regards to future proofing yourself, the only way you would do that would be to buy one of these -

PANASONIC DVD Recorder DMR-XW380 - $799
http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.shop/en/product/GH7020

And that is a lot of money for just future proofing.

On the other hand, your Mum's new Samsung TV would probably have Freeview|HD built in, so she might be happy with watching in HD (when Freeview|HD comes to your area), and then recording in SD when needed.

BTW, if you did go with the Sony option, it has S-video in. It is likely that your current satellite receiver has S-Video out, so if you can find an S-Video cable - that would bump your quality up a wee bit.

michaelt

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#423396 2-Jan-2011 14:32

dontpanic42:
I would assume the EPG would be a full 7-days, as it is taking it from the EIT info?

Yes, it is, however you can only view the EPG for one channel at a time, and have to wait for it to refresh every time (it doesn't store it locally). Makes searching ahead a bit of a hassle. It's possible they've updated it in later firmware or the 811U, however I don't know for sure.

Even if it is possible to go from a composite input to an HDMI output, I'm not sure I see the point. You already have that composite step in the chain, so you're not going to get anywhere near proper HDMI quality. That said, whatever you do, the quality is likely to be significantly better than a VHS videotape.

bfginger

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#423401 2-Jan-2011 15:01

I saw blank VHS tapes for sale in Noel Lemmings recently. There are some for sale on Trademe at low prices.

Price is important, she'd take an ok cheap product over a really good expensive product.

I think a good PVR should be a higher spending priority than a new television. A double tuner receiver is much nicer to have because you can record from one channel while watching another on another mux. The Ultraplus F-9000HD and Vu+Duo are in this category.

Freeview|HD broadcasts should start in Wanganui some time but heals are being dragged and I think it may be as much as a couple of years away.

Right now the rarely used DVD player is connected via the yellow video plug,

Yellow video plug is composite which is much lower quality than S-video or component. A better video connector will improve picture quality when watching material from the DVD player.

If she has a satellite receiver, try tuning it in to SBS.

timmmay

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#423438 2-Jan-2011 17:13

Thanks guys. That Digistar looks cheap and relatively ok, a bit crap, but I wonder if it's worth the bother. I might just suggest she buy some video tapes though, given they are available, and she only wants to watch a few things each week.

I tried component video from the current satellite box to the tv, and even after double checking the connection it still looked awful. Given the DVD is taking up the composite video the only other output is the aerial. That's why I wanted hdmi, as even though the quality's relatively low there are plenty of hdmi inputs on the new tv.

I get freeview HD over rabbit ears here in Wellington, i'm not far from a transmitter.

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michaelt

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#423459 2-Jan-2011 18:44

timmmay:
I tried component video from the current satellite box to the tv, and even after double checking the connection it still looked awful. Given the DVD is taking up the composite video the only other output is the aerial. That's why I wanted hdmi, as even though the quality's relatively low there are plenty of hdmi inputs on the new tv. .

It's possible you have incompatible settings on the DVD player's component output. Your DVD player might be outputting progressive-scan when your TV's expecting an interlaced signal, or vice versa. I'd suggest looking around through both the DVD player's and TV's settings. It's also possible you plugged the cables in in the wrong order.

Also, most modern TV's have at least 2 composite video inputs (one in the front and one in the back). Our main TV has 4 (3 in the back, 1 in the front). Look under the control panel on the front of the TV, you might see another connection.

B1GGLZ

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#423497 2-Jan-2011 20:17

I tried component video from the current satellite box to the tv, and even after double checking the connection it still looked awful.

Component connection should give you a good pcture unless there is a bad connection. I have had a problem with mine sometimes due to a loose connection with fairly thick cables. Once I made sure the plugs were correctly plugged in all was OK. If you have a bad picture there must be a connection problem or incompatibilty problem needing settings checked.
To futureproof you really need a DVD Recorder with Freeview Built In as you most likely can't record Freeview HD (when it arrives) from the Samsung to DVD. Most all DVD Recorders now upscale to HDMI. They are also dropping in price rapidly, particularly the Panasonic Blu Ray.

bfginger

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#423538 2-Jan-2011 21:42

timmmay:
I tried component video from the current satellite box to the tv, and even after double checking the connection it still looked awful. Given the DVD is taking up the composite video the only other output is the aerial.

Are you saying the Freeview satellite box is plugged into the TV via RF modulation? If so, that really needs to change.

timmmay

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#423569 2-Jan-2011 23:37

bfginger:
timmmay:
I tried component video from the current satellite box to the tv, and even after double checking the connection it still looked awful. Given the DVD is taking up the composite video the only other output is the aerial.

Are you saying the Freeview satellite box is plugged into the TV via RF modulation? If so, that really needs to change.

Yep. The 40" Samsung only has one composite video in, and component video didn't work. So ideally it would change, but honestly neither my Mum or I could see any difference between RF and composite, and it's not HD. That's why I wanted HDMI, but what i've told Mum is buy some video tapes until Freeview HD comes to Wanganui then we'll set you up properly.

Jaxson

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#423603 3-Jan-2011 04:24

Yeah some have received freeview HD in Whanganui but as I understand it it is still coming from wharite near Palmerston North. For parents etc I'm not sure that that is reliable enough to install as the only freeview source.

Freeview Sat was out first and yet there is still no official (ie reliable and easy to use) PVR for the Sat service. I find this just plain infuriating. Also though the price is likely to be far higher than the $400 - $700 for the HD service PVRs. Satellite twin tuners tend to be a lot more expensive, I'm told because they have to have larger power supplies to run the LNB perhaps.

Wouldn't hold my breath on the Whanganui freeview HD upgrade. Lots of places should have it but with th change of government nobody seems to care or comment on these plans. Freeview themselves don't seem to have any power over this sort of thing based on the question and answers sections posted here. 90% of the responses were ask somebody else.

illicit

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#423624 3-Jan-2011 08:55

timmmay:
I tried component video from the current satellite box to the tv, and even after double checking the connection it still looked awful.

Something is wrong then, turn off all picture processing in the TV ie: Edge enhancer, live colour, etc etc and try again (BTW - what brand is the freeview receiver?)

timmmay: The 40" Samsung only has one composite video in, and component video. Satellite signal is not HD. That's why I wanted HDMI

HDMI connections wont make your signal HD - It can make the picture a whole lot worse though.

HDMI is not a magic fix for low quality picture - its just a way of sending data. The conversion of a picture to HD is done by a processing chip - there are cheap nasty ones (found in cheap satellite receivers etc) and there are better ones. (used in higher end equipment such as Home Theater receivers)

Still - your picture wont magically become High Definition - the old saying "you can't polish a turd" comes to mind

timmmay

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#423669 3-Jan-2011 10:56

Thanks illicit, i'm an engineer so I understand what hdmi is and what it isn't. Encoding for hdmi is likely to result in less data loss than encoding for transmission to the tv via the RF aerial socket. There's also the chance of upscaling too, but the TV can do that probably as well as anything.

The TV just has heaps of HDMI sockets, which is why I wanted to use them.

farcus

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#423672 3-Jan-2011 11:03

timmmay: Thanks guys. That Digistar looks cheap and relatively ok, a bit crap, but I wonder if it's worth the bother. I might just suggest she buy some video tapes though, given they are available, and she only wants to watch a few things each week.

I tried component video from the current satellite box to the tv, and even after double checking the connection it still looked awful. Given the DVD is taking up the composite video the only other output is the aerial. That's why I wanted hdmi, as even though the quality's relatively low there are plenty of hdmi inputs on the new tv.

I get freeview HD over rabbit ears here in Wellington, i'm not far from a transmitter.

I have an 811U and it works very well.
Relatively easy to use interface with basic EPG (which your mother would probably appreciate over a more clumsy one.)
Has blind scan so easy to tune in a few channels not part of Freeview (e.g SBS from Aust).
I have a 16GB flash drive plugged in to mine. Records at a rate of approx 2GB an hour if I remember correctly.
Recording options are pretty configurable. Can record just once, every day or on specific days only.

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