Spark vs CGA - Out of warranty iPhone

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ArcticSilver

729 posts

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#216649 6-Jul-2017 13:00

In early 2015 (I believe it was January) I purchased a iPhone 6 from Spark.

On the 01/02/16 I my iPhone 6 was sent away for repair by Spark. It had developed an issue where calls were sounding distant. The staff member noted that the camera had moved internally and seemed to imply that he had seen this issue before. It sounds like this is related to a manufacturing defect.

On the 09/02/16 I was notified my phone was back. A staff member let me know that it was a replacement phone.

As of early last month (June 2017) this issue has occurred again. On the 5th of July I attempted to take this back to the Spark store for repair, however they have refused to send it away for assessment or fix this issue at their cost as it is now out of their 24 month warranty (from the original purchase date).

I should also note that I am very careful with my phones, they are always in a case. I treat them with care, I have never had a screen protector on any one of my phones and have never had a broken screen. The phone has no physical damage.

I have subsiquently contacted multiple managers at Spark and put through a complaint via their website (at a managers recommendation) to only get told that they will only honor the 24 month warranty from the original purcahse date (despite my phone being replaced).

I have been told multiple times that the Consumer Gurantees Act does not cover me for this (it is illegal to mislead some one to their rights under the act) and have faced no end of issues trying to speak to some one out of the bounds of their strict policies that can see reason.

I have loged a dispute with the Telecommunication Dispute Resolution (TDR) scheme which seem to be able to hear these issues.

My reasoning is as follows:

1) As per the Consumer Gurantees Act, the goods should be of acceptable quality. A phone such as a iPhone 6 which was one of the most expensive phones that you could buy at the time should be of acceptable quality to last for this period without needing multiple repairs.

2) As per the Consumer Gurantees Act (19 subsection 2) "the replacement goods shall, for the purposes of this Act, be deemed to be supplied by the supplier and the guarantees and obligations arising under this Act consequent upon a supply of goods to a consumer shall apply to the replacement goods." The replacement phone should have a new implied warranty which should last (by Spark's own definition) at least 2 years.

3) As per the Consumer Gurantees Act the goods should last a resonable lifetime. I would also argue that only 2 years and 6 months is not a resonable liftime for a top of the line Apple iPhone and no one would reasonably buy this device knowning that it might only last this period.

All up I am very disappointed in how this has been handled, but it seems to be very common place in the industry, so a question for everyone here.

Do you think it is acceptable for a iPhone (purchased new) to last only 2.5 years?

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#1813799 6-Jul-2017 13:12

Search the Apple support pages I am sure Apple admitted there was a fault with iPhone 6 affecting the cameras and were fixing them at no cost. That would indicate a design or manufacturing fault and Spark are required to get this fixed or replaced. Talk to the Commerce Commission they will advise you.

michaelmurfy

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#1813807 6-Jul-2017 13:22

Here we go again...

Phones have moved from a 1 to a 2 year warranty very recently as per the obligations under the CGA - the CGA states specifically that the phones should last around 2 years. After that, where it be a day or a month it is considered out of warranty. Spark in this case are adhering to their CGA obligations. Phones go through a very rough life with being in your pocket / bag and even around humid environments so even though you've looked after your phone there are other factors that come in to play.

If this was a fault that Apple have admitted to you may have more luck contacting Apple directly but in this case Spark are under no obligation to do anything with this case.

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RunningMan

8953 posts

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#1813811 6-Jul-2017 13:28

michaelmurfy:

[snip]the CGA states specifically that the phones should last around 2 years.

I'm sorry, but that is incorrect. The Act is available here and there is no section that defines the expected lifespan of a phone.

michaelmurfy

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#1813816 6-Jul-2017 13:34

RunningMan:

michaelmurfy:

[snip]the CGA states specifically that the phones should last around 2 years.

I'm sorry, but that is incorrect. The Act is available here and there is no section that defines the expected lifespan of a phone.

Not quite. There was a list on the Consumer website (I can't find it now) that listed phones as having a 2 year average lifespan under the CGA and this is why retailers moved from 1yr to 2yr warranties on mobiles. It has also been explained around here quite a few times too. The CGA is there to also support the retailer.

ArcticSilver

729 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1813823 6-Jul-2017 13:39

michaelmurfy:

Here we go again...

Phones have moved from a 1 to a 2 year warranty very recently as per the obligations under the CGA - the CGA states specifically that the phones should last around 2 years. After that, where it be a day or a month it is considered out of warranty. Spark in this case are adhering to their CGA obligations. Phones go through a very rough life with being in your pocket / bag and even around humid environments so even though you've looked after your phone there are other factors that come in to play.

If this was a fault that Apple have admitted to you may have more luck contacting Apple directly but in this case Spark are under no obligation to do anything with this case.

This is incorrect as the act does not define a period as the period will depend on many factors including the value of the phone.

You have also missed the fact that this phone was replaced less than 2 years ago and hence they are not adhering to the CGA gurantee on the replacement phone.

RunningMan

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#1813828 6-Jul-2017 13:44

Perhaps this is the Consumer page you are looking for https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/faulty-mobile-phones#article-warranty-periods

[snip]

It’s true smartphones can do a lot more than their predecessors. But the purpose of a mobile phone is still to be mobile. It’s meant to be carried with you – not kept in a glass case and taken out on special occasions – and it needs to be designed for this purpose.

The life you can expect from your phone will depend on its quality and how it’s treated. The good news is that our surveys show the majority of mobile phones are reliable. Our 2013 reliability survey found 91 percent of mobiles bought in the previous 3 years had never needed repair.

Whilst their survey is now 4 years old, it would suggest that the expected lifespan is higher than 2 years. There certainly isn't a hard cut off of 2 years in the legislation. The Consumer site seems to suggest that a high end, expensive, brand name phone could reasonably be expected to last longer than say a $30 no name brand phone - of course assuming the user has taken reasonable care of it during that time.

howdystranger

152 posts

Master Geek

#1813840 6-Jul-2017 14:01

IIRC, there's a difference between the warranty period (2 years) and the reasonable lifetime of the device (which could be longer, and where they still have obligations)

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mattwnz

20141 posts

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#1813846 6-Jul-2017 14:08

michaelmurfy:
Here we go again...

Phones have moved from a 1 to a 2 year warranty very recently as per the obligations under the CGA - the CGA states specifically that the phones should last around 2 years. After that, where it be a day or a month it is considered out of warranty. Spark in this case are adhering to their CGA obligations. Phones go through a very rough life with being in your pocket / bag and even around humid environments so even though you've looked after your phone there are other factors that come in to play.

If this was a fault that Apple have admitted to you may have more luck contacting Apple directly but in this case Spark are under no obligation to do anything with this case.

That is simply incorrect imo. The manufacturers warrenty has little to do with the CGA as they are different things. If phones were restricted to a 2 year CGA coverage then it would be written into the legislation. The CGA coverage is done on a case by case basis and depends on the Products value, the amount of use it has had and how it has been treated etc. Eg not everyone just chicks their phone around or drops out. They are also required to be durable and free from minor defects. So a $1500 phone should last longer than a phone worth $100 as a $1500 phone implies superior quality and better build quality.
If you believe the CGA only provides coverage for 2 years on phones like the iPhone, please provide evidence of this. You say this is a recent move but what actual legislation is that based on.

ArcticSilver

729 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1813851 6-Jul-2017 14:19

I have to hand it to Apple. They are the first company I have seen that actually clearly documents the Consumer Guarantees Act and does not try and hide your rights. See - https://www.apple.com/nz/legal/statutory-warranty/

mattwnz

20141 posts

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#1813861 6-Jul-2017 14:30

ArcticSilver:
I have to hand it to Apple. They are the first company I have seen that actually clearly documents the Consumer Guarantees Act and does not try and hide your rights. See - https://www.apple.com/nz/legal/statutory-warranty/

Except is it 100% correct? It says who should you contact-The seller. However shouldn't it also say the manufacturer as an alternative?

Paparangi

166 posts

Master Geek

#1813869 6-Jul-2017 14:40

I've found Apple Support much more helpful than any store in NZ when it comes to warranty and CGA claims - give them a call on 0800 1 27753 and explain your situation and the previous repair and see what they say.

maxeon

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#1813953 6-Jul-2017 15:35

mattwnz:
ArcticSilver:

I have to hand it to Apple. They are the first company I have seen that actually clearly documents the Consumer Guarantees Act and does not try and hide your rights. See - https://www.apple.com/nz/legal/statutory-warranty/

Except is it 100% correct? It says who should you contact-The seller. However shouldn't it also say the manufacturer as an alternative?

First point of contact for CGA claim should be the retailer that you paid, if in the event that you cannot contact them or out of business etc, then it goes to manufacturer. But I have heard some good stories with Apple and they take customer service seriously.

mattwnz

20141 posts

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#1813958 6-Jul-2017 15:40

ArcticSilver:

I have loged a dispute with the Telecommunication Dispute Resolution (TDR) scheme which seem to be able to hear these issues.

How long do the TDR normally take to look into things?

surfisup1000

5288 posts

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#1813962 6-Jul-2017 15:45

michaelmurfy:

Here we go again...

Phones have moved from a 1 to a 2 year warranty very recently as per the obligations under the CGA - the CGA states specifically that the phones should last around 2 years. After that, where it be a day or a month it is considered out of warranty. Spark in this case are adhering to their CGA obligations. Phones go through a very rough life with being in your pocket / bag and even around humid environments so even though you've looked after your phone there are other factors that come in to play.

If this was a fault that Apple have admitted to you may have more luck contacting Apple directly but in this case Spark are under no obligation to do anything with this case.

You are not being serious right? Oh if only the CGA did lay out a schedule of devices and expected lifetimes.

My iphone was nearly 2 and a half years old and spark refused to repair it. In the end they caved but only after going through a protracted fight that 90% of people wouldn't bother with.

There are disputes tribunals hearings of telcos being ordered to fix 4 year old phones (although i think it may have been 5 from memory). Although, a 5 year old phone shouldn't run modern apps but it should work as a phone.

And, in my case it was awful, they replaced my iphone with another faulty one . I guess spark win in the end because I couldn't be bothered going through that again.

michaelmurfy

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#1814055 6-Jul-2017 18:47

@surfisup1000 yes I was being serious. These are the guidelines that have been given to retailers regarding mobile devices but there are always people who think their phones should last a lifetime. Spark in this case are adhering to their portion of the CGA no matter how you argue it. The CGA is there to also help protect retailers. I would agree with let's say a laptop or large appliance but I've worked for retail with mobile in the past, I know what kind of crap some phones go through and yet the customer still expects them to be let's say run over by a lawnmower.

Not kidding. I've seen some horrific "CGA claims". This one to be honest isn't CGA as I said. It is simply with Apple especially if it is a known defect.

People are quick on pointing out what benefits them while ignoring what is there for the retailer.

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