New BB plan from Telecom

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › New BB plan from Telecom

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8222 posts

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#399049 2-Nov-2010 12:01

doozy: ohhh I dunno ... unmetering certain sites ... wouldn't want the cyber police to come and tell me off for net neutrality ... again.

I think most people would not take an ISP un-metering traffic from their own servers inside their network as anti net neutrality.

It's just a sensible course of action that reflects internal traffic is much lower cost than domestic or international traffic.

Many other countries don't have metered internet at all so it isn't even an issue they consider part of net neutrality.

However when you get into deals where Company X pays ISP Y to block/restrict/rate shape traffic to Company Z's sites and services OR when Company X is allowed to purchase premium treatment of traffic but Company Z isn't.. that's the real concern.

catapulter

10 posts

Wannabe Geek

#399050 2-Nov-2010 12:06

Ragnor:
doozy: ohhh I dunno ... unmetering certain sites ... wouldn't want the cyber police to come and tell me off for net neutrality ... again.

I think most sane people wouldn't take an ISP un-metering traffic from their own servers inside their network as anti net neutrality. That's just sensible business as obviously internal traffic is lower cost than domestic or international traffic. Many other countries don't have metered internet so it isn't even an issue they consider part of net neutrality.

Really it's when you get into deals where Company X pays ISP Y to block/restrict/rate shape traffic to Company Z's sites and services that is the real concern.

But isn't this already happening?

If you want iSky then it is unmetered if your ISP is Orcon and some others (I don't remember who). Telecom as a ISP unmetered CASPA for the TiVo...

I don't see the problem.

If an ISP offered unmetered Steam... then I would be much more likely to go with that ISP, because that is probably my biggest data driver.

For others it may be another site...

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek

#399054 2-Nov-2010 12:10

Ragnor:
doozy: ohhh I dunno ... unmetering certain sites ... wouldn't want the cyber police to come and tell me off for net neutrality ... again.

I think most sane people wouldn't take an ISP un-metering traffic from their own servers inside their network as anti net neutrality.

It's when you get into deals where Company X pays ISP Y to block/restrict/rate shape traffic to Company Z's sites and services that is the real concern.

Actually ISPs giving their own content preferential treatment (whether that is unmetering or better QoS) is exactly what net neutrality is all about.

By doing that they are making it just about impossible for anyone else to compete.
Imagine if AT&T brought out a VoiP service for Mobile where all the traffic on it was unmetered and given top priority thorugh it's network, whereas any other VoiP service (like Skype) was not unmetered and given very low priority. How would any other VoiP provider possibly be able to compete with that?
answer: they wouldn't, even if the service was free the quality would be rubbish and the data charges would still apply for customers, hence the argument is that it is anti-competitive.

doozy

245 posts

Master Geek

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#399055 2-Nov-2010 12:12

catapulter:
Ragnor:
doozy: ohhh I dunno ... unmetering certain sites ... wouldn't want the cyber police to come and tell me off for net neutrality ... again.

I think most sane people wouldn't take an ISP un-metering traffic from their own servers inside their network as anti net neutrality. That's just sensible business as obviously internal traffic is lower cost than domestic or international traffic. Many other countries don't have metered internet so it isn't even an issue they consider part of net neutrality.

Really it's when you get into deals where Company X pays ISP Y to block/restrict/rate shape traffic to Company Z's sites and services that is the real concern.

But isn't this already happening?

If you want iSky then it is unmetered if your ISP is Orcon and some others (I don't remember who). Telecom as a ISP unmetered CASPA for the TiVo...

I don't see the problem.

If an ISP offered unmetered Steam... then I would be much more likely to go with that ISP, because that is probably my biggest data driver.

For others it may be another site...

it IS different though ... iSky is apparently going to come from a CDN within Orcon's network which as Ragnor pointed out is the absolute lowest cost traffic an ISP could hope to have, same deal with CASPA and Telecom. Steam doesn't originate within our domestic network (some content is cached by some ISP's) but I would hazard a guess and say still a lot of it is coming across the most expensive transport which is the international pipe.

Tarawera Ultra 2015 done, bring on 2016

exportgoldman

1202 posts

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#399077 2-Nov-2010 13:00

freitasm:
NonprayingMantis:
seamonkey:
doozy: ohhh I dunno ... unmetering certain sites ... wouldn't want the cyber police to come and tell me off for net neutrality ... again.

lolwut?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality

"Proponents of net neutrality argue that allowing for preferential treatment of Internet traffic, or tiered service, would put newer online companies at a disadvantage and slow innovation in online services"

unmeterign certian sites = preferential treatment = bad (in many people's minds)

All Content is Created Equal on The Net...

I agree with Net neutrality, that in essence two web sites which are travelling across the same routes on the internet should be treated the same. One should not be slowed down based on what the views or revenue streams are for that content.

But we cannot expect that data from closer to the end user is not technically delivered faster - thats how it works, nor would I turn down a lower price if a ISP spooled data from a HD in their data centre verses over the Southern Cross cable.

Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.

Cymro

283 posts

Ultimate Geek

#399106 2-Nov-2010 13:57

Personally I think that as the internet becomes more of a commercial delivery vector, you can't help but lose net neutrality.

If all content was free, then yes all content could be created equal, but when you start talking about paid content such as iSky or by extension, content that is part of a value-add with another commercial product (Tivo), then you have to consider that the customer has already paid for delivery of their content as part of the deal, to put it another way, the vendor has offered free postage and packing on the product to help make sales compared to a competitor who hasn't.

So I guess the question becomes, where does a free market and commerce end, and where does the ideology of net neutrality begin?

ALTRON

577 posts

Ultimate Geek

#399113 2-Nov-2010 14:05

So theres no new plans coming and this is just another rumor thread?

zzzz

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Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

nate

6473 posts

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#399245 2-Nov-2010 17:12

ALTRON: So theres no new plans coming and this is just another rumor thread?

I doubt that anyone in the know would tell you... that's if they value having their job for much longer...

NZCrusader

646 posts

Ultimate Geek

#399346 2-Nov-2010 21:13

tarasutherland:
NZCrusader: Im sure they will want to present it themselves. So ill leave it with this statement.

Be patient , something good is in the works.

* Thats if you are talking about Broadband.

interesting. one wonders where you are getting your information from.

Well you will just have to guess. ;)

A good reporter never exposes his / her sources.

NZCrusader

646 posts

Ultimate Geek

#399348 2-Nov-2010 21:23

c71931f:
NZCrusader: Im sure they will want to present it themselves. So ill leave it with this statement.

Be patient , something good is in the works.

* Thats if you are talking about Broadband.

Don't believe you tbh, your not trusted or have a tag etc..

You dont have to believe me now.
But when it comes, you can PM me and let me know I was right.

Btw you must be silly if you think that a Telecom employee that is tagged / trusted would be giving this info away before it is officially released. Would be suicidal for their job I think.

Either that, or im secretly a Telecom NZ employee who has not been identified yet. :)

Ive given you all a "hint" on page 1, minus the specific details.
You can accept it or deny it. Makes no difference to me. ;)

NZ / AU Battlefield 4 Gaming Community
http://www.sonsofvalour.net/forums/forum.php

k1wi

484 posts

Ultimate Geek

#399361 2-Nov-2010 21:50

I'm Spartacus!

Seriously though, it's been a while since they adjusted their plans so it would be timely, especially as a lot of other ISPs have made adjustments lately.

Ragnor

8222 posts

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#399433 3-Nov-2010 02:50

doozy: Steam doesn't originate within our domestic network (some content is cached by some ISP's) but I would hazard a guess and say still a lot of it is coming across the most expensive transport which is the international pipe.

Valve use a CDN like setup for Steam content (ie: game downloads). In addition to their own content servers they get partners like ISP's and game server hosting companies to host content servers.

Valve push content down to all the content servers so that is it closer to the users (similar to youtube/google or akamai).

When you buy a game in Steam and start downloading it the Steam client will try and locate the content mirrors nearest to your location. For us this is usually Australian ISP's like Internode and iinet etc or US servers.

Interestingly Slingshot and Xnet each host a Steam content server but accessible to their customers only.

One gaming server provider (Affinity) has recently hosted a content server available to all NZ ip addresses.

Given the popularity of Steam it's pretty much win win for ISP's, gamers and Valve/Steam

FYI: Becoming a Steam Content Provider
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3326-TDKV-4603

wreck90

780 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#399447 3-Nov-2010 07:45

NZCrusader:
c71931f:
NZCrusader: Im sure they will want to present it themselves. So ill leave it with this statement.

Be patient , something good is in the works.

* Thats if you are talking about Broadband.

Don't believe you tbh, your not trusted or have a tag etc..

You dont have to believe me now.
But when it comes, you can PM me and let me know I was right.

Btw you must be silly if you think that a Telecom employee that is tagged / trusted would be giving this info away before it is officially released. Would be suicidal for their job I think.

Either that, or im secretly a Telecom NZ employee who has not been identified yet. :)

Ive given you all a "hint" on page 1, minus the specific details.
You can accept it or deny it. Makes no difference to me. ;)

You're a bad person :) I'd rather have been surprised.

NZCrusader

646 posts

Ultimate Geek

#399899 3-Nov-2010 23:12

I know. Im horrible :)

NZ / AU Battlefield 4 Gaming Community
http://www.sonsofvalour.net/forums/forum.php

Ragnor

8222 posts

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#399900 3-Nov-2010 23:13

Ragnor:
doozy: Steam doesn't originate within our domestic network (some content is cached by some ISP's) but I would hazard a guess and say still a lot of it is coming across the most expensive transport which is the international pipe.

Valve use a CDN like setup for Steam content (ie: game downloads). In addition to their own content servers they get partners like ISP's and game server hosting companies to host content servers.

Valve push content down to all the content servers so that is it closer to the users (similar to youtube/google or akamai).

When you buy a game in Steam and start downloading it the Steam client will try and locate the content mirrors nearest to your location. For us this is usually Australian ISP's like Internode and iinet etc or US servers.

Interestingly Slingshot and Xnet each host a Steam content server but accessible to their customers only.

One gaming server provider (Affinity) has recently hosted a content server available to all NZ ip addresses.

Given the popularity of Steam it's pretty much win win for ISP's, gamers and Valve/Steam

FYI: Becoming a Steam Content Provider
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3326-TDKV-4603

Steam downloaded some updates for Borderlands and Warhammer Dawn of War II today.

You can see (we're currently on Telecom at home) it chose two Australian content servers this time, internode's and gamearena (which is Telstra AU gaming portal).

Have I convinced you to host a Steam content server on Telecom's network yet?

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