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Topic # 12106 28-Feb-2007 11:30
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As a newcomer to this site, I'm surprised to see how many articles/revues/comments etc are devoted to the activities of NZ Telecom.   With their monopolistic 'No Sim Card' policies, slow and over-priced Broadband offerings, and general slowness to adapt to or adopt new technology, I'm surprised to see them mentioned in the same breath as other innovative and 'go-forward' companies.   I appreciate they do not have the funds for a large R&D department, but they don't have to be quite so reactionary and restrictive whilst lining their own pockets through the efforts of others.

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Reply # 62245 28-Feb-2007 11:56
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Here we go again...

First sim cards don't work in CDMA phones, it's not Telecom being restrictive.

Slowness to adapt/adopt? Telecom were one of the first mobile operators in the world to roll out EVDO and the same with EVDO Rev A. That's leading edge.

Do a little research.

Hmm revues? You make this place sound like a strip club. Geekzone does not given any more attention to Telecom than Vodafone. They are treated fairly equally and get the same amount of complaints. Just as many articles etc are devoted to Vodafone as Telecom.

Have you checked out http://www.telescum.co.nz recently and what's with the bold?

P.S Welcome to Geekzone.

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  Reply # 62247 28-Feb-2007 12:15
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Nicely put Brad.

Im sure that we could find a couple of soap boxes somewhere.


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  Reply # 62248 28-Feb-2007 12:20
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As Brad says, CDMA phones do not generally have SIM card slots.

The reason we talk about Telecom a lot here - and not always in a positive way by any means - is that it's a hugely important technology company. Try as you might, it's difficult to route around Telecom.






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Reply # 62253 28-Feb-2007 12:45
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Hi Bradstewart ....Thanks for the Welcome !   There IS someone out there !   Only kidding.  I'm well aware that CDMA doesn't use SIM cards, so why market the things in the first place ?   Nokia, Motorola, NEC et al used that technology back in the late 80's, and changed to SIM cards.  But I guess 'CHANGE'  isn't a word that is looked up too often in the NZ Telecom dictionary.  Surprisingly I do have a Telecom Mobile.......but I also have a Vodaphone sub  for when I need to change handsets, or go abroad etc.  EVDO may have been tested here, as we are a small developed country with strong European links and readily fit the Consumer Society Model that makes us ideal for experiments on an extended test-site trial basis.   Same thing with the Credit card chips. Just because it's tested here doesn't mean we had anything to do with the development or implementation of the technology.  We're the guinea pigs. [Or leading edge.]   And I will do some research.   It'll be into why you seem so offended at the prospect of a website of which you are a moderator, being accused of any pro [ or anti] company bias.   I'm not accusing you of that at all.   As for the Telescum site, [which seems to be packing up ], it does a good job pointing out just how far behind we are.   I remember a few years back when Telecom even tried to hi-jack the Broadband developments under the Jetsream name.   Fortunately common sense has prevailed and they've fallen into line with the rest of the world concerning the name, if not the marketing policies.   Finally the 'BOLD' was unintentional, and 'REVUES' a grammatical spelling mistake.   I should have realised this is not 'TRADEME'.     
P.S  
I'm sure you're a nice man really.

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  Reply # 62254 28-Feb-2007 12:56
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The CDMA decision was a contentious one but Telecom went down that route instead of GSM and is now bound to a large extent to what its US partner, Sprint does. From what I can tell, the technologies get tested in the US first and then come to NZ.

It's worth remembering that CDMA and EV-DO is available in Australia too, although Telstra will close that network and focus on GSM/UMTS instead.




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Reply # 62255 28-Feb-2007 13:18
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mclayma:

Nicely put Brad.


Thank you.

There is a lot wrong with Telecom and I'm sure even the biggest Telecom supporters will tell you that. I'm not one of them, far from it. Broadband for many sucks.

But there are a lot of positives with Telecom. They have an awesome mobile network. Sure roaming is a pain and you don't have a sim card (I rang Telecom last night and within 2 minutes my number was on another phone) but look at the positives. CDMA signal is much stronger, penetrates paper unlike VF's 2100Mhz UMTS. I find call quality is much better. 3G is almost everywhere.

CDMA is growing very fast and with the exception of Telstra operators in many places are replacing GSM with CDMA/EVDO. Its available right across the States, Asia and now South America and is a growing force in Europe and Africa.

As for Telescum, the site cracks me up, its right up there with goatse.cx

Deep I really am a nice guy... I think


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Reply # 62259 28-Feb-2007 13:45
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bradstewart: Deep I really am a nice guy... I think


Q: Why will bradstewarts coffin be buried at 18 feet deep instead of the usual 6 feet?

A: Because deep down, hes a really nice guy!

</groan>

How does Telecoms CDMA decision make them monopolistic or a bad company in any way? Its a good technology, and there are plenty of ways to win customers off a CDMA provider, so the SIM card argument doesnt hold up.

Broadband is going through some big changes here at the moment - and most of them are currently not working out well for Kiwis. Things can only get better!

/me wanders off whistling the tune of always look on the bright side of life







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  Reply # 62264 28-Feb-2007 14:16
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Yes you are right not much innovation at all...
Private Office Networking, EVDO roaming to Australia, Mobile IP EFT-POS, SMS Short Codes, GSM/CDMA phone (soon with one phone number), EVDO RevA (as already mentioned above), Silent-i vehicle security....

That was my 30 second brain f_rt. I don't want to think to much harder or I will run out of room to write!

BTW - if you want a SIM get a CDMA/GSM combo phone!




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Reply # 62267 28-Feb-2007 14:21
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Hi Tony.    Are all your jokes of the same 'deep' calibre ?    I will watch out for future posts.
I agree that adopting the CDMA standard doesn't make Telecomm a bad company.   Just a company that makes bad decisions. However, they may be helped out by EVDO Rev A and B which promise much.....but so did Nero.   I really do suspect that their decision was influenced by the idea that customers would be more 'locked in' to that technology that the GSM technology, which, technically apart, I suspect they feel did not meet their 'customer control' requirements.   But this is a subjective view.   What is not subjective is their failure/refusal/inability/whatever/....to reach roamiing agreements with other countries using the same technology, of which Bradstewart informs me, there are many.   So why can't we use our Telecom phones anywhere other than   in NZ ?    But my main gripe with Telecom isn't really the Mobiles........it's their failure to respond to anything without been pushed, and even then there is a  slowness and feet-dragging that appears endemic. in that company.   If they're not monopolistic, they're not far from it, in the same way that all previously government/nationally owned Telecom companies who are now private have started with an unsurmountable advantage over any competitors, and seem not to have really ever adapted to the world of competition, even though they are in it !   Communications is a major, major part of any countries economy, on many, many levels.....and consumer well-being, and keeping them up-to-date with modern technology does not appear to be Telecoms prime concern.   I'm sure they feel they have more important considerations to deal with......such as shareholders.  If this wasn't the case, why aren't they working on delivering all of our services via Satellite, instead of still digging trenches and laying copper [or fibre optic] cables ?  Too expensive ?  Maybe.  Ask the shareholders. 

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  Reply # 62270 28-Feb-2007 14:27
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rodhudson: So why can't we use our Telecom phones anywhere other than in NZ ?

You can. Check the Telecom website. With the Samsung W531 you can use your phone in any country. It is dual CDMA/GSM

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Reply # 62272 28-Feb-2007 14:31
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Do your research... Telecom roam to most other CDMA operators in the world. Telecom are on the roaming standards body at the CDG. An old colleague of mine who manages the standards would be horrified to read your comments. On the CDG Telecom is considered to be at the fore front of roaming.

BTW - The government dished out the spectrum. They gave 900MHz to BellSouth and 800MHz to Telecom. 800 was used for AMPS/TDMA (American technology) and the natural upgrade path was CDMA

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  Reply # 62277 28-Feb-2007 14:43
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rodhudson: As a newcomer to this site...

Hi Rod,

You are making some interesting points in your posts which are certainly provoking some discussion today...

However, could I suggest something in the interests of readability:

You will notice that the majority of the posts on this forum use paragraphs to break up the text, making lengthy posts much easier to read.  This will also allow you to give special emphasis to any points you wish to promote ahead of the rest in terms of reader attention.

I'm not trying to patronise you, but I'm sure you will agree that the more people who read your posts the better in terms of getting a response.  And the fact is that if you post large blocks of text without any white space, many readers will only get so far before giving up on reading the rest.  It's a well-known fact from research done by the authors of:  "The Advertising Manager's Handbook" which I remember reading a few years back.

Cheers,
Grant.

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  Reply # 62281 28-Feb-2007 14:58
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Jama: BTW - The government dished out the spectrum. They gave 900MHz to BellSouth and 800MHz to Telecom. 800 was used for AMPS/TDMA (American technology) and the natural upgrade path was CDMA


Telecom also purchased 900Mhz (ETACS but later renamed GSM) spectrum and subsequently lost it. During the spectrum sales BellSouth, Telecom Australia and Telecom NZ purchased ETACS bands and Telecom NZ also purchased the second AMPS band. Telecom were told by the court they couldn't have both the 2nd AMPS band and a ETACS band and the American interests who saw DAMPS as the future gave up the ETACS band in return for 100% of the AMPS spectrum in NZ.

Many would arge it was the biggest mistake Telecom NZ made - internally they realised by the mid 90's that GSM was the way go  but unfortunately Telecom had no spectrum to roll out GSM and the 1800MHz GSM bands weren't allocated then. Had Telecom had the ETACS spectrum band I'm sure we'd now have two GSM operators in NZ now.




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  Reply # 62282 28-Feb-2007 15:10
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rodhudson: Hi Tony. Are all your jokes of the same 'deep' calibre? I really do suspect that their decision was influenced by the idea that customers would be more 'locked in' to that technology that the GSM technology, which, technically apart, I suspect they feel did not meet their 'customer control' requirements. But this is a subjective view.


1. Yes, my jokes have always been predominantly terrible. Imagine my delight at returning my Parrot brand Car Kit to a store today, and announcing:

I wish to complain about this parrot what I purchased from this very boutique. ("Whats wrong with it?", they ask) I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it!

(Exceedingly funny for Monty Python fans, not so for others)


2. Regardless of any percieved 'lock-in' (which doesnt actually exist with the advent of $99 full price mobile phones with zero contract), the decision absolutely would have been made on mid-long term revenues (and sustainability of such), with a view to building the best possible network with features ahead of its competitor to attract customers, and their money.

Its hard to innovate technology-wise if both teams run the same gear, so I feel that although it would be convenient for network-jumpers if we ran 2 x GSM/WCDMA networks here, it would stifle competition in the hardware/services area to some degree (with a corresponding increase in lock-in deals via contracts and business pricing.

You simply dont spend tens of millions of dollars or more without looking for your primary goal to be financial return. If they could have got the same numbers (for the same investment) from a GSM/WCDMA system, then im sure that would have been a real option.

Even if lock-in (by way of hardware compatibiilty), or lack of it, did exist (anymore), remember it works both ways. If you have that as a barrier to customers leaving, its also a barrier to customers arrving.








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  Reply # 62284 28-Feb-2007 15:16
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sbiddle:
Jama: BTW - The government dished out the spectrum. They gave 900MHz to BellSouth and 800MHz to Telecom. 800 was used for AMPS/TDMA (American technology) and the natural upgrade path was CDMA


Telecom also purchased 900Mhz (ETACSbut later renamedGSM) spectrum and subsequently lost it. During the spectrum salesBellSouth, Telecom Australia and Telecom NZ purchased ETACS bands and Telecom NZ also purchased the second AMPS band. Telecom were told by the court they couldn't have both the 2nd AMPS band and a ETACS band andthe American interests who saw DAMPS as the future gave up the ETACS band in return for 100% of the AMPS spectrum in NZ.

Many would arge it was the biggest mistake Telecom NZ made - internally they realised by the mid 90's that GSM was the way go but unfortunately Telecom had no spectrum to roll out GSM and the 1800MHz GSM bands weren't allocated then. Had Telecom hadthe ETACS spectrum band I'm sure we'd now have two GSM operators in NZ now.



Actually not quite true. The 025 network was launched in August 1987. At that time Telecom was still an SOE (State Owned Enterprise). Telecom wasn't sold to the Americans until 1990.

According to Roderick Deane in a recent National Business Review interview the National government forced Telecom to sell its GSM spectrum.




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