Twisted pair cabling for ADSL

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Twisted pair cabling for ADSL

kiwijoey

20 posts

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#154016 15-Oct-2014 14:20

Hi, this is a related question to my ADSL 2 performance issues post, as I'm still having problems with the Internet "dropping" every 15 mins for about 30s (have to hit refresh a couple of times on the browser each time). I'm trying to eliminate any cabling issues, and just have a question regarding cabling.

I have a RJ-11 connection from the wall jack to the ADSL router and master filter for the phone, but most of my RJ-11 to RJ-11 cables look like old phone cables, so not sure what the quality of these is like. However, I have strands of twisted pair cable pulled out of CAT6 cable (e.g. one strand is blue and blue/white, one strand is green and green/white, etc)...can I use these strands (as there's only two pins needed) or would it be safer to wire up using the full CAT6 cable?

Thanks

PeterReader

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#1154447 15-Oct-2014 14:20

Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

- you have reset your modem and router

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

- Your ISP and plan

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

- Your general location (or street)

- If you are rural or urban

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?

I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.

These links are referral codes: Sharesies | Mighty Ape

Sideface

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#1154483 15-Oct-2014 14:45

The single twisted pair idea sounds like something out of the pioneering days of the Internet.
Just buy some new Cat6 patch cables - petty cash, and they will be better terminated than anything you could make yourself.

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kiwijoey

20 posts

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#1154502 15-Oct-2014 15:03

Thanks, I've got lots of CAT6 patch cables as all my network cabling is CAT6, but wanted to ensure the RJ-11 cables were up to scratch before it hits the router. Also, I did some more investigation and the run of cable from the outside Spark demarcation point to the wall point in the house is quite thick black and red cable (looks more like a power cable)...does anyone know whether this was ever used for phone wiring in the past, or has someone done a hack job on phone cabling in the past?

Thanks,
kiwijoey

toejam316

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#1154503 15-Oct-2014 15:06

Sounds like a older lead in, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem - the wire in those is 0.9mm (IIRC) which is much more conductive than the 0.63mm wiring in the newer lead-ins. Also, I'd definitely go for CAT6 if you want optimal performance.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

Bung

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#1154506 15-Oct-2014 15:15

You should stick to one post as the info is being spread around.

"

Hi, sorry, i did mean a master filter...the incoming phone line is wired directly into the ADSL router, and the master filter is connecting the phone line to the incoming line...however, I just noticed I have a Belkin surge protector (filters power, telephone) in-between the incoming line and the patch panel, so will re-attach without the surge protector to see if it makes a difference."

Is your master filter install inside the house?

Unless your RJ11 cable has a connection fault I think it is a red herring.

sbiddle

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#1154509 15-Oct-2014 15:21

You need to address the root cause - is your DSL sync dropping or are you trashing the router CPU causing it to temporarily stop passing traffic?

Replacing your cabling will only make a difference if you're losing DSL sync.

kiwijoey

20 posts

Geek

#1155533 15-Oct-2014 16:34

Cool, that's good news...saves having to rewire! Many thanks

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kiwijoey

20 posts

Geek

#1155536 15-Oct-2014 16:38

Hi, yes...apologies for that...it was only going to be a cabling question, so thought i'd separate it out, but you're right...should have kept to the same thread.

The master filter is inside the house...the RJ11 from the phone wall point gets split into two...one feed goes into the adsl router directly, and one feed goes to the master filter, and then from the master filter into a patch panel dedicated for phone connections.

Hope that makes sense...

Thanks

kiwijoey

20 posts

Geek

#1155541 15-Oct-2014 16:51

sbiddle: You need to address the root cause - is your DSL sync dropping or are you trashing the router CPU causing it to temporarily stop passing traffic?

Replacing your cabling will only make a difference if you're losing DSL sync.

Hi, that's a good point...I've got a Netgear DG834 Firewall Router, and the connection statistics show up ok, even when the Internet connection seems to be dropping out. I've not considered the router CPU causing issues as it's the same router that I've been using for the last 4 years, and the problem only started occurring about 3 months ago. Having said that, I just realised that I bought a QNAP TS-420 NAS around that time, so will switch it off and see how we go...

Many thanks

westom

18 posts

Geek

#1156466 17-Oct-2014 02:44

kiwijoey: Hi, that's a good point...I've got a Netgear DG834 Firewall Router, and the connection statistics show up ok, even when the Internet connection seems to be dropping out.

That means the connection from your modem/router to the DSLAM remains good. That is only one part of a connection. Numbers say that hardware is not a problem. Move on.

For example, did you know many web sites now cause maybe as many as 50 other connections to your browser page? Are things stopping because so many advertising and other 'monitors' are now making connection to your computer with each web page? This question also cannot be answered with hard facts and associate numbers. How many connections are vying to push data now into your computer?

kiwijoey

20 posts

Geek

#1156550 17-Oct-2014 08:55

westom: That means the connection from your modem/router to the DSLAM remains good. That is only one part of a connection. Numbers say that hardware is not a problem. Move on.

For example, did you know many web sites now cause maybe as many as 50 other connections to your browser page? Are things stopping because so many advertising and other 'monitors' are now making connection to your computer with each web page? This question also cannot be answered with hard facts and associate numbers. How many connections are vying to push data now into your computer?

Thanks, I think you're right...the ADSL connection is stable, and all PCs are wired via CAT6 to a 1GB switch, so the connectivity is good. I was hoping it was simply a cabling issue, as that would make the resolution much simpler. Since the same issues happen on all three PCs (two of them are Intel i7 3rd gen, so decent machines), then this could potentially be caused by some of the websites (or IE10, didn't upgrade to IE11 because of the tabs), though we mainly just browse news and gaming sites. However, my wife also uses Yahoo email, and generally find that to be pretty heavy for some reason (plus Yahoo and gaming sites have a lot of advertising).

I'll probably try replacing the ADSL router (have a spare one) as sbiddle mentioned about the CPU, otherwise, it will have to be down to isolating websites, which is not so easy...

Thanks all for the suggestions, will keep going to try to isolate the problem...

Many thanks
kiwijoey

westom

18 posts

Geek

#1156832 17-Oct-2014 14:22

kiwijoey: I'll probably try replacing the ADSL router (have a spare one) as sbiddle mentioned about the CPU, otherwise, it will have to be down to isolating websites, which is not so easy...

Solving problems is about following the evidence. Where is any fact or number that even suggests a router/modem has any problem?

Numbers say modem is talking just fine to a DSLAM. Lights on both ends of Ethernet cable and a diagnostic program such as PING can demonstate everything between a cmoputer and ADSL router/modem is just fine. So swapping out the ADSL router would only be wild speculation. And would add more unknowns and therefore more complexity.

First identify a defect. Replacing something comes much later. Ohterwise you have maybe 30 things to swap out using speculation. Suggested was one reason for symptoms. Why ignore that possiblity while swapping something that would not explain those symptoms?

Follow the evidence.

kiwijoey

20 posts

Geek

#1156883 17-Oct-2014 15:04

westom: First identify a defect. Replacing something comes much later. Ohterwise you have maybe 30 things to swap out using speculation. Suggested was one reason for symptoms. Why ignore that possiblity while swapping something that would not explain those symptoms?

Follow the evidence.

Thanks westom, will certainly heed your advice...was trying a process of elimination but looks like I'll have to do some more diagnosis...

westom

18 posts

Geek

#1156973 17-Oct-2014 17:07

kiwijoey: I'll have to do some more diagnosis...

Break the problem down into parts. Then only test/analyze those parts.

For example, signal strength between modem and DSLAM is one isolated section involving only hardware between those two devices.

Hardware between computer and modem is verified by Ethernet lights and PING. Router data (software) functions can be verified by constant pinging between two local computers. Again limiting test to a subsection of your hardware.

Some web sites setup almost 50 different connections to each web page resulting in major bandwidth consumed by advertising. Verify which web sites have and do not have delays.

Some router/modems contain diagnostics so that the router can ping directly to some web sites. Pinging done without depending on your computer and its network connection - another possible source of delays.

Some servers can ping to your computer. What do they report? Do they also see that 15 second delay maybe caused by your provider's DSLAM?