[WXC/VFX] The Torrent plan and what it's done...

Forums › One New Zealand (including Vodafone, WxC, Farmside) › [WXC/VFX] The Torrent plan and what it's done...

1 | ... | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | ... | 23

213 posts

Master Geek

#170587 11-Oct-2008 12:36

The change seemed so sudden that I have to think there`s more to it than just oversubscription. Maybe Xnet felt that the peak-time issues were fixed, so they got rid of some bandwidth to save money. I think they should charge more for the Torrent plan (maybe 2 bucks instead of 1.50), and charge less for the regular Fusion (maybe 50 cents instead of 1 dollar). Just to equalize the bandwidth usage a little bit.

If honest work and justice are not enough - we'll get a lawyer.

slayer123

25 posts

Geek

#170590 11-Oct-2008 12:56

Been on the phone again to Xnet today and the guy admitted they don't care about the torrent plan customers. That's why they have no information on their site relating to the issue.

I've switched back over to the $1 per gig option and going back to leaching at covenant peak times. Xnet have lost allot of respect over the issue, I will not refer them in future.

TameIti

97 posts

Master Geek

#170591 11-Oct-2008 13:02

Who exactly did you speak to?

TameIti

97 posts

Master Geek

#170595 11-Oct-2008 13:08

I'm going to ring them again and ask them to fix the usage meter. It's been stuck since the 6th October so I have no idea what data I've used in a week.

braindead

25 posts

Geek

#170598 11-Oct-2008 13:25

It's not that Xnet don't care about their Torrent customers, it's that their 90% user base that does not use Torrent has priority. Big difference :)

TameIti

97 posts

Master Geek

#170599 11-Oct-2008 13:30

hmm not exactly true. If I were on the normal plan, I'd probably be paying less since I use more peak bandwidth because nothing can be done during offpeak time. As long as torrent and non-torrent are equally treated I will stay on the torrent plan and try to get some free data.

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#170600 11-Oct-2008 13:42

braindead: It's not that Xnet don't care about their Torrent customers, it's that their 90% user base that does not use Torrent has priority. Big difference :)

When the torrent plan was introduced I discussed the impact of this with WxC. From memory with an uptake of just on 50 users who moved from their current plan to the torrent plan their peak time traffic issues temporarily resolved themselves. It really does show how a small minoriry of users really do cause a lot of the issues.

I was trying to find a link to a story I read earlier in the year about Comcast's introduction of caps and P2P traffic shaping, off the top of my head something like 10% of their users comsuming around 80% of their total bandwidth 2% of their users comsumed something like 40% of their total traffic. These figures really are facinating and show that the P2P traffic shaping really is one of the only ways that slow downs can possibly be avoided. Bittorrent my nature will simply max out all available bandwidth, if ISP's add bandwidth it'll just get sucked up immediately by existing users.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

boby55

1539 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#170601 11-Oct-2008 13:47

Ive finally had enough of the s**t speeds and
I will be moving back to my $1/gb plan tomorow and hence downloading my 50+gb in peak times when its convention for me.

TameIti

97 posts

Master Geek

#170604 11-Oct-2008 14:00

You will still get bad speeds after 12am until it is fixed. Remember, they are making changes so it will get worse before it gets better,

euanandrews

1528 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#170608 11-Oct-2008 14:25

wh0beme: But the thing is...
They willingly give us 75gb data/month, so using it all is hardly "abusing", since they offer it to us. Its like saying your abusing your internet for using your 40gb cap.

Don't get me wrong, I agreee with you...you are entitled to that 75GB as that is what they offered, that is what they marketed...and that is why I signed up for the plan myself...

I was just illustrating myself as an example of someone who currently uses minimal bandwidth, yet I have had my speed crash as well...

My point was that the xnet terms as posted about in this thread, that state xnet have the right to change the terms or shape or throttle a user, if they deem them abusing thieir service....I am not saying someone who uses their allocated 75GB is abusing the service, but I am saying I am no where close...so it tells me they are now restricting/limiting ALL users on the torrent plan.

freitasm:
TheBartender: Last month, I used only 3.03GB...
So far this month, I have only used 0.83GB...
So why are you on the Torrent plan then? It makes no sense.

That is a legitimate question...now.
I signed up as I had good intentions to use the 75GB, and did use 60GB in the first month of being on the plan...
But since then, I have been just too busy, and have not bothered with setting up downloads.
I also ran out of hard disk space but now I have my HTPC built and have pleanty free space again.

Talkiet

4793 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#170609 11-Oct-2008 14:35

A) "Free" data isnt free. We get so called "free" data by paying 1.5x the cost for data during peak time. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Wrong, completely and utterly wrong. $1.50/GB during peak hours doesn't get anywhere near compensating for the AH use. Accept it.

B) Cannot scrap plan. Will lead to peak bandwidth issues

Should scrap plan - having ANY flat rate component in the lineup is encouraging indiscriminate use which increases network utilisation overall and requires more investment by the ISP. Unfortunately since a lot of use is now coming from users that don't pay any extra depending on how much they use, there's no revenue to support this investment.

C) If they advertise 75gb "free", one should assume that every user should be able to reach 75gb between 12am and 8am and not just a select few. Xnet do not guarantee service but they aim to provide "adequate" service. If a user can only get 3gb down in one month between 12am and 8am it shall be deemed as inadequate whereas if I can get 70gb done off peak it shall be deemed adequate.

Once again, you're only reading into this what benefits you. Unless it also benefits Xnet, it won't happen. The simple fact is that providing a service where many users can pay about $50 (+ a nominal amount for peak time surfing) for 75GB of torrents per month is a money losing proposition.

Honestly, I believe a lot of people WANT Xnet to fail and lose money. Somehow they feel they are entitled to abuse the network because Xnet got some calculations wrong.

Anyone claiming that they should be able to get 75GB during the offpeak hours is effectively asking Xnet to accept losing money on them.

As has been said before - you signed up for a service with an expectation of good performance for a bargain basement cost. It hasn't worked out that way. Either users can continue to whinge or you can go find a better service.

Please explain, so someone like myself can understand, why you haven't gone to another ISP that can offer better service? I already know your answers to this, and they pretty much underline my points.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Talkiet

4793 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#170610 11-Oct-2008 14:38

boby55: Ive finally had enough of the s**t speeds and
I will be moving back to my $1/gb plan tomorow and hence downloading my 50+gb in peak times when its convention for me.

Good move!

And more importantly, you won't download stuff just for the heck-darn of it, you'll download stuff that's worth $1/GB to download. That's discriminating behaviour, and it's good for the network.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

cranz

675 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#170612 11-Oct-2008 14:44

So have any of you that switched back from Torrent to previous plans noticed better performance after midnight?

This is my next step - but no point if I still can't view a single international website after midnight

attilathegorilla

213 posts

Master Geek

#170624 11-Oct-2008 16:07

Talkiet: Do u seriously mean what you`re saying? It costs absolutely nothing for Xnet to offer the Torrent plan. Zero. Nichts. Rien. Except maybe administrative and marketing costs, but nothing in terms of extra bandwidth. Before the Torrent plan was born, all that bandwidth was already there and available but very few people were using it, so it was being wasted. With the Torrent plan, Xnet has been able to spread its bandwidth usage, which has meant a lot more satisfied customers. They needed to offer after-midnight traffic for free, cos otherwise people would have had no incentive to change their internet habits and start torrenting overnight, instead of whenever it`s convenient. Remember that ISP`s don`t pay for the traffic that their customers use, they only pay for the bandwidth. Xnet`s done really well (profit-wise) with the torrent plan, no wonder now there`s another small isp offering a similar plan.

If honest work and justice are not enough - we'll get a lawyer.

Talkiet

4793 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#170627 11-Oct-2008 16:39

attilathegorilla: Talkiet: Do u seriously mean what you`re saying? It costs absolutely nothing for Xnet to offer the Torrent plan. Zero. Nichts. Rien. Except maybe administrative and marketing costs, but nothing in terms of extra bandwidth. Before the Torrent plan was born, all that bandwidth was already there and available but very few people were using it, so it was being wasted. With the Torrent plan, Xnet has been able to spread its bandwidth usage, which has meant a lot more satisfied customers. They needed to offer after-midnight traffic for free, cos otherwise people would have had no incentive to change their internet habits and start torrenting overnight, instead of whenever it`s convenient. Remember that ISP`s don`t pay for the traffic that their customers use, they only pay for the bandwidth. Xnet`s done really well (profit-wise) with the torrent plan, no wonder now there`s another small isp offering a similar plan.

You're right in principle (That the torrent plan didn't cost Xnet anything in terms of money for extra bandwidth) but...

- It really upset interactive users trying to use the Internet at that time.
- It's REALLY upset the torrenters now they have (by the look of it) had to allocate some (not a lot) bandwidth to the torrent plan exclusively.
- The time and cost of making those engineering changes, plus dealing with the upset customers on the helpdesk.
- The goodwill of the customers remaining.
- The cost of losing some customers based on the periods of bad performance and the cost of not getting new customers.

So yeah, it cost nothing for Xnet to off the torrent plan.

You meant to say "Xnet didn't pay any extra to augment their bandwidth as a result of offering the torrent plan"

But it "costs absolutely nothing for Xnet to offer the Torrent plan." ???? I don't think so.

If they had pitched either the hours or the amount of uncharged traffic at different values it probably would have worked - but they got the hours and the amount of traffic wrong, and it has cost them a lot.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

1 | ... | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | ... | 23