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theibm

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#128852 26-Aug-2013 10:28
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Unlike the rest of the world Vodafone NZ have been reluctant to allow Sure Signal (SS) to connect to the NZ VF using other ISP data connections. It is believed this decision is based on marketing decisions rather than any reasonable network security concerns which is what VF site as the reason. By locking the device to the VF network NZ customers have no alternative but to use VF data links who are then guaranteed the ongoing business.  
 
However in certain cases where there is no VF ADSL or other land line data service or for example when a business is locked to a corporate network they will occasionally relax the rules.

In certain cases such as in Christchurch there are sub-divisions where the copper or fibre is owned by other ISP's, in such cases VF as an ISP is not a choice available to the customer.

The following is (generally) applicable for Sure Signal to work:

1Mbs downlink and 300K uplink as a minimum. Normally using VF as the ISP!
A fixed Internet IP address when not using VF as ISP.
A locked internal LAN DHCP address for the Sure Signal.
TCP Ports 8, 50 & UDP 123, 500, 4500 forwarded to the Sure Signal (NAT'ed).
Clear view of the sky (for GPS signal)

To prevent the devices being used away from the country of origin Sure Signal uses GPS to provide not only timing but a position fix. Whilst information is sketchy as to how this is implemented by the various vendors the following details the process. Certainly no reference material relating to a GPS signal requirement could be found in any VF documentation however practical tests proved this to be the case.

The information provided by VF NZ is sketchy at best and the tech support virtually non existent. It appears most of the VF tech's have received little or no training as to how these devices actually work. After the SS device I was using failed after a simple router swap I decided to do some digging, using TCPDUMP to capture the network traffic. I was able to dissect the packets and discover a lead as to what was actually going on. I noticed a reference to 'GPS 'in the UTP data coming back from VF which reminded me of an article I read in the past about Femtocells.

To prevent SS being used overseas (thus bypassing exorbitant roaming user charges) the SS device has a GPS chip fitted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femtocell (see section under Equipment Location). If for example you connected the SS via a proxy located in the country of origin the device would by rights appear to VF as being located in that country based on IP location tracking or having the proxy sitting on a VF IP or other ISP valid (VF authorised) IP address. To overcome this potential problem the SS uses GPS location fixing.

The process of setting up the device involves linking back to VF using standard (IPSEC) network communication methods.

A timing signal  using Network Time Protocol (NTP) is exchanged between the SS and VF which is compared to a GPS time and location signal received by the SS. At this time a failure to obtain a GPS signal will result in a lack of sync for the SS.

Therefore make sure the Sure Signal has a clear view of the sky when initially setting it up. How often the device needs to use GPS positioning is not known however it is safe to say if it looses lock put it next to a window.

One way round the issue of not being able to access VF as an ISP is to set up a link to a proxy which is sitting on Vodafones network. This would involve setting up tunnelling and is potentially messy although in theory should work.






 












 



 
 

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sbiddle
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  #884554 26-Aug-2013 11:07
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theibm: Unlike the rest of the world Vodafone NZ have been reluctant to allow Sure Signal (SS) to connect to the NZ VF using other ISP data connections. It is believed this decision is based on marketing decisions rather than any reasonable network security concerns which is what VF site as the reason. By locking the device to the VF network NZ customers have no alternative but to use VF data links who are then guaranteed the ongoing business.   
  
  


Slightly incorrect.

One of the main reasons is that in NZ, unlike most other countries where VF have deployed Sure Signal, there are no restrictions on devices that can connect. In the UK for example you need to register allowed devices, and only these phones can connect to the Sure Signal.

Here in NZ Vodafone decided to move away from this model and allow any phone within range to connect. To do this required zero rating the Sure Signal data, otherwise people would find bill shock an issue if their neighbours connected and used a lot of data or calling. 



theibm

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  #884584 26-Aug-2013 11:56
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Whilst I accept Biddle's comments regarding VF NZ zero rating the Sure Signal data as being correct. I do not believe this is sufficient a good reason to block other ISP connections. As long as a SS user is made fully aware they might ('might' being the operative word here) be exposed to high data costs, it is up to the customer to decide whether they want to take the risk in such circumstances not Vodafone.

It would appear the majority of people wanting to use SS live in either isolated areas, or are unwitting victims of New Zealand's topography and as such the risk of data blow out caused by the neighbours is extremely small. Cell phone's use negligible data in any case during calls ~40Kbs which is nothing in the scheme of things.

Also considering:

The low population density in NZ as compared for example to say cities in the UK.
NZ's predilection for 1/4 acre sections.
Sure Signals very limited range.
The move toward unlimited or very large ISP data caps.
Any handset user using the SS is STILL subject to their calling and data cap.

More importantly by enabling ANY VF handset to use the SS AND zero rating any SS traffic they exponentially increase their nationwide network coverage at no expense. Clever!

As someone who has suffered for years with no VF coverage, who lives on a large section, in an isolated area and has an unlimited ISP data cap I'm happy to let any VF user nearby access the SS service.

Am I worried about security? No not really. I assume (and I'll have to check this with VF) that any data pulled through the SS is subject to standard VF data charges and subject to the same monitoring (logging of device ID, sites visited and so forth) as a data connection using the 2/3/4G network.


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  #884590 26-Aug-2013 12:07
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I agree with biddle - the unmetered data is probably the primary concern. Marketing though may be a big factor too.

In a small beach community, the residents have heard about this and are crying out for me to say yes they can use them. But many of the residents are still in a vodem contract and so suddenly if a vodem decides to connect to the neighbours suresignal, not only will the vodem owner be paying their normal amount for the 4gb of data, the suresignal owner will also be charged 4gb of data for the vpn back to vodafone. The chances of the vodem users locking on to a suresignal user is pretty slim though as only 4 of the 20 houses in the community has cellular coverage and the limited range of the suresignal.

However in other areas, we have about 150 rural households on the network which are more than a few hundered metres from their neighbour so there is no chance of this happening - as i have pointed out a few times, these areas are an untapped market for vodafone.

I have emailed Caitlin and havent heard back from her yet so if anyone else has a tech contact in vf who i can speak to about getting one of these boxes to test with out at the beach community then I am super keen.

Oh also - do they take 7 hours to boot up?
I have heard the ones deployed in the UK take about 5-7 hours of spectrum analysis before they will activate after powering on so the box doesnt interfere with an active channel used by a nearby tower.




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johnr
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  #884640 26-Aug-2013 13:00
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Sure Signal does not require GPS to work or to register the first time

froob
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  #885018 26-Aug-2013 22:34
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raytaylor: ...Oh also - do they take 7 hours to boot up?


From memory the first boot was much quicker than this - maybe 20 minutes or so.




Coil
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  #885040 26-Aug-2013 22:50
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My VSS boots up in around 2-5 minutes. Make sure your modem is online before booting the VSS.

theibm

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  #885123 27-Aug-2013 09:19
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The engineers at Vf NZ who I've been working with and who support Sure Signal are now adding the GPS requirement to their documentation. So I must disagree with Johnr's comment about GPS requirements. It begs the question how come John knows so much about these things and the official VF support engineers don't? Anyone got a GPS jammer to fully test the theory?

 
 
 

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nedkelly
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  #885128 27-Aug-2013 09:26
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theibm: Anyone got a GPS jammer to fully test the theory?


Yeah I do, its called a window less room.

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  #885195 27-Aug-2013 11:31
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TimA: My VSS boots up in around 2-5 minutes. Make sure your modem is online before booting the VSS.


I used one on trial with the HFC network in Wellington earlier in the year. Initial config was about 2-3 hours as I recall, then on subsequent restarts it was in the 2-5 min range. This was the little residential unit though, not the larger enterprise version.




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johnr
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  #886070 28-Aug-2013 18:47
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theibm: The engineers at Vf NZ who I've been working with and who support Sure Signal are now adding the GPS requirement to their documentation. So I must disagree with Johnr's comment about GPS requirements. It begs the question how come John knows so much about these things and the official VF support engineers don't? Anyone got a GPS jammer to fully test the theory?


Have you got the names please of the Vodafone staff? The Engineers that work on this kit do not deal with customers, As advised VSS does not require GPS to work in New Zealand

Any names please DM me direct

johnr
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  #886080 28-Aug-2013 18:52
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antoniosk:
TimA: My VSS boots up in around 2-5 minutes. Make sure your modem is online before booting the VSS.


I used one on trial with the HFC network in Wellington earlier in the year. Initial config was about 2-3 hours as I recall, then on subsequent restarts it was in the 2-5 min range. This was the little residential unit though, not the larger enterprise version.


First start up I found was about 40 minutes for the unit I tested and then approx 2 - 3 minutes after that

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