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Topic # 161658 15-Jan-2015 04:14
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This may well be off-topic but nevertheless an interesting subject as all Vodafone companies belong to the same holding and what is decided in one territory may result in changes elsewhere.

Vodafone Netherlands have decided that all of their DSL subscribers must have a minimum download speed of 12mbit at their home address.
If their line distance is too long and they are unable to reach 12mbit Vodafone will disconnect their services on the 30th of March.

Vodafone claims they are a "provider of quality services" and speeds below 12mbit are "insufficient to provide the quality they strive for"

Disconnected customers are instructed to seek an alternative ISP (in NL this could be KPN, the equivalent of Spark/Telecom)

Here is the original article in Dutch for those who are able to read it or wish to Google Translate it:
http://tweakers.net/nieuws/100790/vodafone-gaat-thuis-klanten-met-trage-verbinding-afsluiten.html
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftweakers.net%2Fnieuws%2F100790%2Fvodafone-gaat-thuis-klanten-met-trage-verbinding-afsluiten.html

and a copy of the letter subscribers receive
http://ic.tweakimg.net/ext/i/2000573926.jpeg



I reckon more than half of rural NZ would lose connectivity if ISP's adopted this? lol.




Gigabit


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  Reply # 1215218 15-Jan-2015 06:28
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They must be mad.





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  Reply # 1215255 15-Jan-2015 08:28
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That's one way to reduce the support overhead of dealing with customer's slow connection issues... just get rid of the customers.




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  Reply # 1215264 15-Jan-2015 08:40
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One way to boost average ISP speeds :)




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  Reply # 1215265 15-Jan-2015 08:43
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Although I am not sure how many actual customers they actually have

 

According to this, they only began fixed line services in October 2014, and listed a 12 Mb/s limit for DSL then

 

http://www.telecompaper.com/news/vodafone-nl-launches-fixed-internet-tv-nationwide--1041114

 

 

I suspect they have had a few signups that are not meeting their 12mb/s limits and they are culling them now before they get to a large number...

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  Reply # 1215268 15-Jan-2015 08:56
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I thought Europe had fantastic internet speeds anyway? So they're going to lose about 10 customers?

Its almost unbelievable, business giving away paying customers, and marketshare.

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  Reply # 1215304 15-Jan-2015 09:56
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Dairyxox: I thought Europe had fantastic internet speeds anyway? So they're going to lose about 10 customers?

Its almost unbelievable, business giving away paying customers, and marketshare.


I think that it's a clever move, as it will reduce customer complaints and expensive call-backs.
They only want the market share that gives them a profit, and margins are thin.




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  Reply # 1215330 15-Jan-2015 10:24
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Dairyxox: I thought Europe had fantastic internet speeds anyway? So they're going to lose about 10 customers?

Its almost unbelievable, business giving away paying customers, and marketshare.


According to some of the articles elsewhere it involves "a couple of thousand" customers, including old school ISDN subscribers.

On a market with a population of 17 million it's not a big deal.

Still I can't think of any other telecom provider that has sent away paying customers in a similar way. smile





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  Reply # 1215352 15-Jan-2015 10:58
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ScuL: ...
On a market with a population of 17 million it's not a big deal.

Still I can't think of any other telecom provider that has sent away paying customers in a similar way. smile



I'm sure it's a business decision.  I expect the revenue/cost ratio simply doesn't stack up for them.

Given the NZ population, population density and geographical constraint, in comparison to NL, I certainly wouldn't expect them to do the same here.




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  Reply # 1215366 15-Jan-2015 11:17
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Could also be to push add-on services like tv on-demand, and those with less than 12Mb/s can't be catered for.

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  Reply # 1215407 15-Jan-2015 11:44
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Chorus or it might have been Telecom Wholesale at the time made a similar decision a few years back about outright refusing to install connections due to distance from the exchange. An cut off point was decided on instead of a will a connection work on a case by case basis. I became aware of this when we started getting complaints from potential customers who would move into a house and be told they were to far away form the exchange to get broadband when the last occupant had a connection.
In the cases I'm thinking of we are talking about people who were getting sync rates less than 1Mbit. At the time I remember thinking a 300Kbit connection was still a lot better than dialup. It made a lot of sense from a wholesaler point of view and being in frontline tech support at the time I can't say I was too upset either. It meant I was less likely to have somebody insist I fix their internet connection when it wasn't broken just limited by physics.


It really could be an interesting market position to be in as a provider. I regularly hear complaints form Americans about how they can only get Comcast where they are. It could be interesting to see if this could result in a scenario where a Netherlands resident is complaining about not being able to get Vodafone where they are in the sense of regretting the loss of access to a premium provider.
I wonder how they deal with a scenario where they essentially tell a big high value customer with multiple locations that they won't provide service in some locations.




Please note: I have a professional bias towards Vodafone.

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  Reply # 1215417 15-Jan-2015 12:05
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Slightly off-topic, and perhaps because I'm a bit old-fashioned, but I find the tone of the letter sent to customers a bit disrespectful. In dutch you use different words for you/your depending on whether you are being informal with friends/peers (je/jouw) or being more formal/respectful with people you don't know or are older than you (u/uw).

I guess there is a general move by businesses to a more informal communication style these days, but if you're going to disconnect someone for something that isn't their fault I'd probably want to use the more respectful style.



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  Reply # 1215489 15-Jan-2015 13:26
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Green: Slightly off-topic, and perhaps because I'm a bit old-fashioned, but I find the tone of the letter sent to customers a bit disrespectful. In dutch you use different words for you/your depending on whether you are being informal with friends/peers (je/jouw) or being more formal/respectful with people you don't know or are older than you (u/uw).

I guess there is a general move by businesses to a more informal communication style these days, but if you're going to disconnect someone for something that isn't their fault I'd probably want to use the more respectful style.


Yes you're right. The letter has been fully written in informal tense (je/jouw) rather than formal tense (u/uw).
For those of you who speak German or French this compares to Du & Sie and Tu & Vous.

Most Dutch companies that either attempt to be trendy or target a younger clientèle tend to use this form nowadays, however I would agree with you that a more formal tone in a disconnection notice would be expected

PS: last thing I had expected here was a comment on the language used :)




Gigabit


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  Reply # 1215503 15-Jan-2015 13:55
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ScuL: I reckon more than half of rural NZ would lose connectivity if ISP's adopted this? lol.


No half or more of urban NZ would loose connectivity, how many DSL subscribers get 12Mbit+ ?!

I used to get 10Mbit and I was close to an exchange lol





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  Reply # 1215725 15-Jan-2015 23:14
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Vodafone run somewhat different companies in different countries - and it appears they often run as individual units without too much inter-relationships other than head office providing branding and it support?
Johnr would be able to tell us more.

So looking at google earth, it appears that in the netherlands, there is a town with 3000+ residents approx every 6 to 10kms by road. The towns are evenly scattered throughout the whole country.

So it would seem that if you were to put a dslam in each town, and two satelite cabinet with a dslam in it outside the town, you would never be any further than 3kms from a cabinet.

Netherlands population 16.8 million in 41,543km2
NZ population 4.5 million in 268,021 km2

So we have 1/4th the population, in a country 6 times larger.

ADSL2+ works at 12mbits up to 2.5kms - so thats every rural town covered without a problem.

I am therefore making an assumption that in the netherlands, you are never more than 3kms from a cabinet or exchange. I think its closer to never being more than 2.5kms from a cabinet but lets say 3 for good luck.

The Netherlands has a rural population ratio of 17.1%.

So if an ISP like vodafone wanted to appear as a premium option, and have a minimum of 12mbit service, it would probably only affect 2.73% of the total population - those that live more than 2.5kms from a cabinet, assuming that all rural folk are within 3kms of a cabinet.

Very different demographics indeed.




Ray Taylor
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  Reply # 1215731 15-Jan-2015 23:20
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Great idea. In NZ they could just start by not allowing new connections on conklins since that seems to cause a majority of complaints. Then start kicking the highest users of the conklins off of them as they are clearly not suited for them.




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