Sanitarium cuts weet-bix supply to the warehouse.

Forums › Off topic › Sanitarium cuts weet-bix supply to the warehouse.

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#3142852 4-Oct-2023 20:46

huckster:
ezbee:

Thats a fun video, there are some very dark areas of the biggest and richest Churches that were passed by though.

Paying tax does meet many of the aims of the Church in that it is directly contributing to society.

Perhaps we can ease their concerns by ringfencing Church business tax for social housing, social services, hospitals, medical, etc.
In a way make it easy for them to show money going directly to good community purposes.

Problem solved :-)

By not paying tax, a Church chooses where that money goes - you could argue they are therefore excusing themselves from the democratic process whereby the majority chooses where money goes.

Generally Churches, and other charities get their operating income from donations. Donations that come from people who have already paid Income tax on their personal earnings. Do you feel it's right that the government gets to have a double take on charitable givings?

The govt doesn't think so, and thats why 33.33% of donations can be claimed back.

ezbee

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#3142853 4-Oct-2023 20:55

We are mainly talking about Church businesses...

The biggest and wealthiest tend to have businesses, like Sanitarium, others its property, and so on.

Its not very fair for companies that have to compete with them.

huckster

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#3142866 4-Oct-2023 21:08

insane:
huckster:

By not paying tax, a Church chooses where that money goes - you could argue they are therefore excusing themselves from the democratic process whereby the majority chooses where money goes.

Generally Churches, and other charities get their operating income from donations. Donations that come from people who have already paid Income tax on their personal earnings. Do you feel it's right that the government gets to have a double take on charitable givings?

The govt doesn't think so, and thats why 33.33% of donations can be claimed back.

Apologies to Mods. I went off topic again with my Church tax-status thing.

On topic, still really interested in what really went on behind closed doors in the rationing decision. Will we ever get an answer on that......?

mattwnz

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#3142872 4-Oct-2023 21:46

Has there been any recent communication from this new Grocery Commissioner on the developments this week?

Handle9

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#3142873 4-Oct-2023 21:51

mattwnz: Has there been any recent communication from this new Grocery Commissioner on the developments this week?

There has been communication between the commissioner and Sanitarium.

Kyanar

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#3143022 5-Oct-2023 10:54

insane:

Generally Churches, and other charities get their operating income from donations. Donations that come from people who have already paid Income tax on their personal earnings. Do you feel it's right that the government gets to have a double take on charitable givings?

The govt doesn't think so, and thats why 33.33% of donations can be claimed back.

Generally goods and services are purchased with money. Money that comes from people who have already paid income tax on their personal earnings. Do you think it's right that the government gets to have a double take on spending?

The government does think so, and that's why you pay 15% extra on top of the price of everything.

...

Yeah, no, that excuse doesn't fly sorry. Churches are businesses, through and through. Some of them even operate quite profitable businesses, such as the one in this thread. The one that, because it doesn't have to pay income tax, has more ability to compete than its competitors. There's a simple fix for that: furtherance of religion = not tax exempt.

cddt

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#3143194 5-Oct-2023 15:01

Kyanar:

Yeah, no, that excuse doesn't fly sorry. Churches are businesses, through and through. Some of them even operate quite profitable businesses, such as the one in this thread. The one that, because it doesn't have to pay income tax, has more ability to compete than its competitors. There's a simple fix for that: furtherance of religion = not tax exempt.

If you think that's bad, wait until you find out about all the methods of profit extraction multinationals use to avoid paying tax. Royalties, marketing expenses, corporate licence fees, intellectual property rights payments, development charges, consulting fees, etc. the list goes on.

If you want to change the tax system to be fairer, go after the big fish first.

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Handle9

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#3143205 5-Oct-2023 15:50

cddt:
If you want to change the tax system to be fairer, go after the big fish first.

Why not do both?

Kyanar

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#3143302 5-Oct-2023 20:12

cddt:

If you think that's bad, wait until you find out about all the methods of profit extraction multinationals use to avoid paying tax. Royalties, marketing expenses, corporate licence fees, intellectual property rights payments, development charges, consulting fees, etc. the list goes on.

If you want to change the tax system to be fairer, go after the big fish first.

Churches and ... to keep related to the topic ... Sanitarium are pretty big fish...

Wombat1

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#3143357 5-Oct-2023 20:51

I dont know what it would accomplish if sanitarium were forced to start paying tax?

They will simply pull out of nz and continue to sell their products to NZ as an Australian entity at higher prices. Believe me those marmite fans will pay premium prices to get their goods. Do you remember the shortage a few years ago? NZ will be worse off if this had to happen, hundreds of people will lose their jobs too. Let’s be careful what you wish for, we don’t want sanitarium to become another Trademe.

ezbee

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#3143363 5-Oct-2023 21:28

Wombat1...

It may not be that easy they have significant asset value in the factory and its operation, maybe a long term lease.
The cost of exiting the market and shipping or disposing of equipment etc.

Tax is just a % of profit its not everything, its not even the majority, there is still the cream on the top.

Maybe the NZ board and others are actually people high up in your Church, and that would be a problem.
More income lost if their directors or management fees are tithed,
along with a portion of staff that might be your religion.

Never mind you then have a group of people who know how to efficiently operate a food business.
All the ins and outs that would give a competitor or the very management team of that business,
a basis to start a competitive business.

There should be a saying in Marketing 'mind the gap'

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#3143365 5-Oct-2023 21:34

Wombat1: I dont know what it would accomplish if sanitarium were forced to start paying tax?

They will simply pull out of nz and continue to sell their products to NZ as an Australian entity at higher prices. Believe me those marmite fans will pay premium prices to get their goods. Do you remember the shortage a few years ago? NZ will be worse off if this had to happen, hundreds of people will lose their jobs too. Let’s be careful what you wish for, we don’t want sanitarium to become another Trademe.

They would make a contribution to society proportional to the benefit they get from that society.

If they sold their products from their Australian entity they would be taxed. It doesn’t matter where the entity is housed, if they make a profit doing business in New Zealand that is taxable.

Wombat1

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#3143368 5-Oct-2023 21:41

Handle9:
If they sold their products from their Australian entity they would be taxed. It doesn’t matter where the entity is housed, if they make a profit doing business in New Zealand that is taxable.

GST only, which Im pretty sure it was mentioned further up that they already pay GST. I still fail to see the benefits of forcing them to pay tax.

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#3143369 5-Oct-2023 21:47

Wombat1:
Handle9:
If they sold their products from their Australian entity they would be taxed. It doesn’t matter where the entity is housed, if they make a profit doing business in New Zealand that is taxable.

GST only, which Im pretty sure it was mentioned further up that they already pay GST. I still fail to see the benefits of forcing them to pay tax.

Ah no. If a business makes a profit in New Zealand that profit is taxed in New Zealand.

Wombat1

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#3143370 5-Oct-2023 21:52

Handle9:

Ah no. If a business makes a profit in New Zealand that profit is taxed in New Zealand.

Check your facts... Plenty of companies shipping to NZ that dont have a presence in NZ, let alone an IRD number. ANd lets not forget they not a company in Australia either.

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