Today's Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

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#3200604 27-Feb-2024 20:17

SomeoneSomewhere:
I believe NZTA has rules that pretty severely dissuade pedestrian ('zebra') crossings on major roads.

As above, there are few other options aside from no crossing, cross at own risk, or various degrees of traffic light.

It's not the pedestrian crossings that are the problem, it's the crazy dumpster fire of roundabout, speed tables, crossings, traffic lights, and just the right spacing between the roundabout and crossing to trap vehicles in there stalling the entire roundabout. It's like they took every single traffic-disrupting element they could and threw it all together into one mess.

Here's a simple, time-tested solution that does away with the entire mess, and in fact is what exists everywhere else on the same road: A four-way intersection with traffic lights and pedestrian crossings.

HelloThere

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#3200605 27-Feb-2024 20:23

neb: What they did is added pedestrian crossings with speed tables and lights a bit back from the roundabout, with just enough room for a car or truck to get caught between the crossing and the roundabout.

Exactly what they are doing in Hamilton minus the lights. Plus they've removed the two lanes going into and out of the roundabout and replaced it with one lane which increases the length of cars waiting and then blocks the road when people are crossing.

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#3200606 27-Feb-2024 20:25

Technofreak: In most of the cases I can think of there was a different possible outcome. In some cases the different outcome was acheived after strong feedback from the end users in other cases the engineers knew best and continued with their original plan despite the feedback, delivering a sub optimal outcome.

In many cases I think you'll find the feedback scenario leads to someone else getting involved and that person has the authority to make a decision out of the norm.

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#3200610 27-Feb-2024 20:39

neb:
SomeoneSomewhere:

I believe NZTA has rules that pretty severely dissuade pedestrian ('zebra') crossings on major roads.

As above, there are few other options aside from no crossing, cross at own risk, or various degrees of traffic light.

It's not the pedestrian crossings that are the problem, it's the crazy dumpster fire of roundabout, speed tables, crossings, traffic lights, and just the right spacing between the roundabout and crossing to trap vehicles in there stalling the entire roundabout. It's like they took every single traffic-disrupting element they could and threw it all together into one mess. Here's a simple, time-tested solution that does away with the entire mess, and in fact is what exists everywhere else on the same road: A four-way intersection with traffic lights and pedestrian crossings.

Setting up a couple of pairs of traffic lights is, I imagine, a much much simpler and cheaper proposal than converting a roundabout to a four-way traffic light intersection. The latter was likely rejected on budgetary grounds.

Is it not ideal? Probably.

Do people need to re-learn not to enter the intersection if they can't exit it? Duh.

Technofreak

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#3200611 27-Feb-2024 20:41

gzt:
In many cases I think you'll find the feedback scenario leads to someone else getting involved and that person has the authority to make a decision out of the norm.

Perhaps, however in the examples I'm thinking of it was the same person. To their credit they took on board the feedback. The system was technically compliant either way it was configured.

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neb

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#3200614 27-Feb-2024 20:48

SomeoneSomewhere:
Do people need to re-learn not to enter the intersection if they can't exit it? Duh.

Well that's the cool thing with this roundabout/intersetion/traffic light/etc layout, it's impossible to know whether you can exit it when you enter it, you just have to hope none of the lights change or someone steps onto a crossing during the time you're navigating your way through the whole mess.

Technofreak

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#3200617 27-Feb-2024 20:54

SomeoneSomewhere:

Setting up a couple of pairs of traffic lights is, I imagine, a much much simpler and cheaper proposal than converting a roundabout to a four-way traffic light intersection. The latter was likely rejected on budgetary grounds.

Is it not ideal? Probably.

Do people need to re-learn not to enter the intersection if they can't exit it? Duh.

The trouble is you cannot see that the exit will be blocked until after you enter.

On the roundabouts I'm thinking of there is no pedestrian crossing just a raised raised area. Pedestrians do not have right of way however some pedestrians think they do and walk out in front of the traffic and/or some drivers don't know the road rules and stop as if it were a pedestrian crossing and stop, thus blocking the exit. Also you can be unsighted to pedestrians that may decide to cross in front of a preceding vehicle which then decides to or has to stop for an errant pedestrian.

It's not about drivers needing to re learn not to enter without a clear exit, it's about drivers knowing the difference between a pedestrian crossing and a raised piece of roadway and pedestrians also knowing the difference.

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#3200672 28-Feb-2024 07:24

Technofreak:

SomeoneSomewhere:

Setting up a couple of pairs of traffic lights is, I imagine, a much much simpler and cheaper proposal than converting a roundabout to a four-way traffic light intersection. The latter was likely rejected on budgetary grounds.

Is it not ideal? Probably.

Do people need to re-learn not to enter the intersection if they can't exit it? Duh.

The trouble is you cannot see that the exit will be blocked until after you enter.

On the roundabouts I'm thinking of there is no pedestrian crossing just a raised raised area. Pedestrians do not have right of way however some pedestrians think they do and walk out in front of the traffic and/or some drivers don't know the road rules and stop as if it were a pedestrian crossing and stop, thus blocking the exit. Also you can be unsighted to pedestrians that may decide to cross in front of a preceding vehicle which then decides to or has to stop for an errant pedestrian.

It's not about drivers needing to re learn not to enter without a clear exit, it's about drivers knowing the difference between a pedestrian crossing and a raised piece of roadway and pedestrians also knowing the difference.

100%, these are basically speed bumps, not pedestrian crossings.

The idea about road markings, signage, etc etc etc is to supply certainty to expected behaviour , making driving safer for drivers and pedestrians.

"being nice" is changing those rules, causes confusion and create problems behind the offending vehicle. What is behind you is just as important as what is ahead of you.

freitasm

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#3200697 28-Feb-2024 09:13

Oh, poor things.

Press release from Spark:

Spark Chair Justine Smyth said, “The first half of FY24 was characterised by high inflation and cost of living pressures, which flowed through to lower levels of consumer and business confidence."

Followed by:

revenue increased 1.3% to $1,976 million
adjusted EBITDAI grew 3.9% to $530 million
mobile service revenue increasing 6.3% to $510 million as the benefit of price increases flowed through and connection growth continued.

I wrote a couple of long paragraphs about companies complaining of inflation, setting their own prices, having a captive market and sailing through it - including an increase in profit. Consumers don't have this power.

I've deleted and replaced with the concise paragraph above.

afe66

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#3200794 28-Feb-2024 11:52

RNZ
Minister of Justice

"It was these restrictions that propelled McKee into politics and she was now spearheading the complete rewrite of our gun laws."

OK, I didn't decide to enter politics to improve the lot of nz or something improve health system or lower taxes, it was the need to revoke a gun law brought in in the wake if the worst mass murder episode in nz that made me enter politics...

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#3200904 28-Feb-2024 15:14

SomeoneSomewhere:Sounds like a widespread failure to obey the rule of not entering an intersection you cannot exit.

Which is all very well, except

(a) I believe a roundabout is technically 1 (or 2?) intersection for each road connecting to it. So I believe it's legal to enter the roundabout, except maybe if you're turning left and the left exit is blocked.

(b) You have to look for pedestrians crossing your exit AND (a car waiting for them OR a car on the roundabout ahead of you who is going to use that exit OR a car who is going to enter the roundabout ahead of you and use that exit) before you enter the roundabout. Even if there are no shrubberies, etc blocking your view, this is practically impossible.

neb

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#3201000 28-Feb-2024 18:14

Sign at the local WoolCountWorths:

As opposed to... three of sand and one of cement? It's bread, what else would you make it from than bread flour (which is wheat flour, and also coincidentally the cheapest type of flour)?

SomeoneSomewhere

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#3201002 28-Feb-2024 18:28

I believe a lot of NZ flour is actually imported from Aus. Some of the whole foods baking types get whiny about it.

neb

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#3201003 28-Feb-2024 18:31

SomeoneSomewhere:
I believe a lot of NZ flour is actually imported from Aus. Some of the whole foods baking types get whiny about it.

Ah, so it's the origin, not the type. And given the (Australian) Woolworths rebranding I can see why they'd want to emphasise the use of NZ ingredients.

Bung

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#3201013 28-Feb-2024 19:15

It's just saying if you're gluten intolerant forget about anything made by Woolworths.

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